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Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by whoisjuan on Thursday August 20, 2020 @12:50PM (#24225330)
I keep paying my health insurance premium at my home country just because the health insurance in the US is completely broken. I feel that if you get seriously sick in the US you're in an almost sure path to financial insolvency.

My employer pays probably a shit ton of money for my health insurance and what I get is the most subpar, confusing, broken and sometimes blatantly extortive service ever.

I live in Austin and sometimes I think if I really need a major procedure it would be just simpler to drive to Mexico and get it done there. In fact, that's what many people in South Texas do, so there's your benchmark for how broken is healthcare in the US.

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by mumblemumble on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:36PM (#24226838)
You don't even necessarily have the option to shop for service in the USA.

Earlier this year my family had a medical emergency that resulted in us being billed a truly staggering amount of money for services that were technically elective, somewhat unproven, and not necessarily even recommended by the standard of care, and for which the actual sticker price varies wildly from hospital to hospital. But, when an emergency happens, you don't get to shop for hospitals, and you more-or-less unthinkingly do what the care team recommends, because there's simply no opportunity to stop and do any sort of cost/benefit analysis. As luck would have it, we ended up at a hospital that both tends toward the more liberal end of the spectrum in terms of what they do, and tends toward the more expensive end of the price range.

Fortunately our financial hit won't be too bad, because we have decent employer-provided insurance, and that cushions the blow quite a bit. If there's a silver lining, it's that we hit our out of pocket expense limit in the first part of the year, so we basically get everything for free for the rest of the year. But that whole situation is also a big part of the problem. We're nominally in the driver's seat, but, in practice, we really aren't in charge. Because we don't have access to a lot of the information necessary to make informed decisions, but also because we've been insulated from some of the major factors that might motivate an informed decision.

Social criticism in the USA tends to revolve around the "theater" metaphor. We have security theater, we have hygiene theater. I would characterize the underlying principle of the USA's health care system as agency theater.

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by gpanders on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:12PM (#24226462)
> I live in Austin and sometimes I think if I really need a major procedure it would be just simpler to drive to Mexico and get it done there.

This even has a name: Medical Tourism.

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by asah on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:19PM (#24226562)
Friend does this - she raves about the results.
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by ngngngng on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:22PM (#24226601)
I definitely recommend it for dental work. You can easily find a dentist in Mexico that went to school in the US and has the same credentials. You'll save so much money.
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by toomuchtodo on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:31PM (#24226750)
I recommended a friend who needed heart surgery with less than great US health insurance go to India to have it done. US trained doctors, recuperated in accommodations equivalent to a five star resort. Cheap enough they could pay for it in cash.

I am downright surprised I haven't seen a YC startup that performs this sort of medical tourism brokerage to be honest. Take this business model! I'll be your first angel investment.

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by ngngngng on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:55PM (#24227128)
I love the idea, I imagine it's in a tricky legal area though. And perhaps the people that could pull it off are all profiting off of the US healthcare system well enough to not need to pursue this.

I know the insurance plan that Utah government employees are on will pay you to go to Mexico to get your prescriptions filled. Airfare, hotel, and medication costs are all covered. Free vacation just so the company doesn't have to pay the US prices for drugs.

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by searchableguy on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:34PM (#24226803)
Just remember that you might be displacing poor locals from getting the treatment instead. Poor countries have bigger shortage of good doctors and they prioritise foreign appointments due to getting paid more than the local prices.

Edit: This is true for India which is a top medical tourism place:

https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/implications-india-me...

https://scroll.in/article/931857/with-20-medical-professiona...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC404528

http://www.who.int/hrh/resources/16058health_workforce_India...

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by samatman on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:01PM (#24227252)
You just made this up.

No, really: you just, flat out, made this up.

You have no way of knowing that demand for services in every single country with medical tourism outstrips supply of professionals. You just assumed it.

If it doesn't, which is just as likely (I think more, but I also don't know, and unlike you I won't pretend to know), then you're injecting money into the local economy, while getting medical/dental care at a lower price: win win.

The US has a uniquely onerous path of education and accreditation for medical professionals, with substantial supply-side limitation in the form of slots for medical school. Other places aren't so burdened.

Something to think about.

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by cosmojg on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:25PM (#24226651)
I wonder if medical tourism provides a capitalist solution to the healthcare problem in the US. Could it be cheaper for a health insurance company to pay for flights to and from other countries along with procedures in those countries? There are a lot of non-emergency medical issues which can be serviced this way. In the long run, such insurance would drive down the price of traditional health insurance as well as the price of the procedures themselves locally.
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by alistairSH on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:56PM (#24227158)
This employer is already doing that (and pays some of the savings out to the employee/patient)...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/09/business/medical-tourism-...

Though, I'm not convinced that's the "correct" solution from a broad societal perspective.

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by sbrother on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:29PM (#24226727)
My state does this for public employees: https://www.sltrib.com/mexico-pharmacy-tourism/
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by birdyrooster on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:30PM (#24226734)
They literally already do this
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by ska on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:23PM (#24226619)
One glance once you cross over to Nuevo Laredo will show you this isn't a novel thought. Especially for dental and smallish out-patient procedures.
Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by badideaprojects on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:44PM (#24226958)
Can confirm. I drove from Austin to Nuevo Laredo for dental work. Park up, walk across the bridge, get dental work for a fraction the of the US price and walk back. Most painful part of the process is going back though US border control.
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Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by syshum on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:33PM (#24226792)
In what way?

MX has a free market in healthcare, this allows people to get better care and lower prices as all free markets do

The cost of care in the US is so high because of the layers and layers of regulations, tax code, and legal liabilities that compound to influence the market in ways that are Anti-Consumer and increase prices on the service

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by mdoms on Thursday August 20, 2020 @05:59PM (#24229515)
> The cost of care in the US is so high because of the layers and layers of regulations, tax code, and legal liabilities that compound to influence the market in ways that are Anti-Consumer and increase prices on the service

So is it your belief that other countries that have highly-regulated medical systems, complex tax codes and a high degree of legal liability also have health care as expensive as USA? Or do you think it's possible that there are other factors at play?

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by syshum on Friday August 21, 2020 @06:40AM (#24233739)
Ofcourse there are lots of other factors at play, nations with complete government run have all kinds of price controls on the product of health care that results in longer wait times than the US, and in many segments of care worse outcomes, and /or lower quality of care

For example in the US most hospital beds are semi private where only 1 other patent is in the room. Where in many government run hospitals in other nations they was a Ward system where 10,20 or more patents are all lined up in a row. This reduces costs but I prefer our semi private system

US also leads the world in medical research both in new technical, and in drug development largely this has a direct impact on our healthcare costs as well as unlike the rest of the world we do not have the same government mandated price controls. I wonder if US succumb to the pressure and does go full government run with the same price controls what that will do to the advancement of medicine in the world

If you look at a wide range of actual care standards such as Cancer Survivability Rates, Wait times for Specialists, Wait times for things like getting a Heart Stint the US leads the world in health care outcomes. I am sure you will point to the ever misunderstood Life Expectancy and /or infant mortality rates which ARE NOT a proper judge of the health system itself but commentary on other factors in society (such as lifestyle choices)

I believe the free market provides for the best outcomes for the most people, and I believe centrally planned systems be them economic or healthcare provide the worst outcomes. With the free market you may sometimes have breadlines but with centrally planned economies you may sometimes have bread.

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Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by syshum on Thursday August 20, 2020 @02:55PM (#24227146)
I dont think you really want me to answer that question...

That said..

>> taxes

This can never be free market, and some taxes (aka income taxes) is just unethical theft

> FBI, police

Should be funded in a variety of ways but absolutely could be privatized

https://reason.com/video/dont-abolish-the-police-privatize-t...

> Maybe we should get rid of army and hire mercenaries?

That is a little more tricky and would require an analysis of what we think the proper role of the military would be, but there are several proposals that replace the standing army (which is unconstitutional anyway) with something like the national guard controlled by individual states not the federal government

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by LaserToy on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:24PM (#24227557)
Why can’t pay taxes to an entity I prefer? Isn’t it a service? So, if some entity can give me healthcare, I will pay them

If everything is free market, why do we need government?

I know the answer, do you?

Re:Rideshare operations are being suspended in California by syshum on Friday August 21, 2020 @06:49AM (#24233763)
>>Why can’t pay taxes to an entity I prefer? Isn’t it a service?

No taxes are not a service. Taxes are a compulsory contribution to state revenue enforced by the threat of violence. One can not simply choose not to consume a service and thus not pay the "taxes" for that service.

The fact is that the government, like a mugger, says to a person: Your money, or your life. And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat.

The government does not, indeed, waylay a person in a lonely place, spring upon them from the road side, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.

>>If everything is free market, why do we need government?

we do not need the modern "nanny state" central planning style of government, we need a basic frame work of law that is far far far more limited that what most consider the modern government to be and is based on lawful defense of life, liberty and property nothing more.

A person is composed of Life, faculties, & production aka individuality, liberty, & property

Each of us has a natural right to defend their person, their liberty, and their property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two.

The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all.

Since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common force for the same reason cannot lawfully be used to destroy the person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups.

Governments that are granted more power / authority than the collective organization of lawful defense are unethical in their foundation and purpose