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Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by ISL on Monday August 17, 2020 @01:13PM (#24189274)
How does line-sag lead to increased resistance?

My understanding is that the mean-free-path of conduction electrons in even OFHC copper is quite short -- scattering on impurities is the dominant loss mechanism, not the boundaries of the conductor. Is the theory advanced above that the morphology of the wire matters, or is there another mechanism at work?

Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by etimberg on Monday August 17, 2020 @01:25PM (#24189410)
The resistance is not constant and is in fact a function of temperature [0]. Line sag is a proxy measurement for line temperature, since things expand as they heat up. From [1], most materials have positive alpha coefficients so the resistance increases with temperature.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_and_con...

1. https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chp...

Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by ISL on Monday August 17, 2020 @02:16PM (#24190074)
The statement referred to heating driving sagging, which increased resistance.

The increase of resistance with temperature is well-known -- I was curious if there is some effect that is directly related to the wire sag (changing morphology, somehow-altered surface area/skin-depth, changing kinks at the connections, some subtlety with increased length (cross-sectional area also increases), etc..).

Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by hanniabu on Monday August 17, 2020 @04:27PM (#24191642)
Theoretically I would thing the sag itself should increase resistance since resistance increases with both length and smaller wire diameter. When the line lengthens the diameter should decrease (similar to stretching a piece of gum or putty).
Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by function_seven on Monday August 17, 2020 @06:16PM (#24192884)
It's not being stretched by an external force, though. It's expanding due to heat. The diameter would also expand some negligible amount I think.
Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by leni536 on Monday August 17, 2020 @04:53PM (#24191933)
I don't think it should. Heat expansion should slightly increase the diameter.
Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by mensetmanusman on Monday August 17, 2020 @07:19PM (#24193451)
Not if the length increases to counteract it.
Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by sharpneli on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:04AM (#24195739)
It doesn’t ”counteract” it. All dimensions increase based on the same coefficient. Same percentage increase on all axis.

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_expansion and check the coefficient of expansion.

Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by Scoundreller on Monday August 17, 2020 @03:36PM (#24190999)
My thought is that after each expansion/contraction cycle, contraction is never exactly back to its previous state.

Like bending a piece of metal back and forth, it weakens each time.

Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by thescriptkiddie on Monday August 17, 2020 @10:36PM (#24194720)
Just FYI, transmission lines are aluminum not copper. Also, both copper and aluminum have positive temperature coefficients of resistance.
Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by Scoundreller on Monday August 17, 2020 @01:31PM (#24189486)
My thought was that the gauge of the wire goes down as it sags. The same weight of wire across a longer distance.

Maybe I’m wrong and this kind of wire stretching doesn’t impact resistance?

Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by morei on Monday August 17, 2020 @05:03PM (#24192063)
The volume expands as it heats, so it's not a given that the diameter (gauge) goes down. But the length is longer and that does increase the total resistance.
Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by etaioinshrdlu on Monday August 17, 2020 @04:53PM (#24191940)
I think sag means voltage sag.
Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by fencepost on Monday August 17, 2020 @07:05PM (#24193333)
One of the more impressive things I've seen with electricity is watching a transmission line into a local neighborhood turn orange and stretch to drape itself across a pickup truck parked in the wrong spot. Took a minute to realize what I'd just watched.
Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by andrewflnr on Monday August 17, 2020 @09:41PM (#24194448)
You glowing orange from heat?
Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by fencepost on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @09:14AM (#24210005)
Yep, only thing that made sense. There was a heavy storm going through and I was driving by at night, during the day probably wouldn't have been visible at all.
Re:Rolling blackouts in California have power experts stumped by ericbarrett on Monday August 17, 2020 @05:01PM (#24192038)