Okay, I'm gonna let you in on a shocking secret.

Ready? Lean in close so this doesn't get out.

Some people go to bars... to drink.

Crazy, right? I know! But it's true, I swear.

And it turns out San Francisco has -- well, at least pre-pandemic -- bars that make really good drinks. Smuggler's Cove is hands down one of the best tiki bars in the world. Rickhouse is a great (if crowded) new-deal whiskey bar, right around the corner from another great (if crowded) new-deal tiki bar, Pagan Idol. Tadich Grill is like stepping back in time. Trick Dog is wildly inventive and kind of nuts. Bourbon & Branch is a dynamite speakeasy. Buena Vista has legendary Irish Coffees. Cliff House is kind of a tourist trap, but their Ramos Gin Fizz is on point and you can sip it while looking out plate glass windows overlooking the Pacific. And speaking of gin, there's Whitechapel, which is like someone opened a goddamn steampunk bar in an abandoned London subway station. Tequila? There's Tommy's, a dive Mexican restaurant whose tiny dingy bar happens to be run by a guy designated as a "tequila ambassador" by the Mexican government.

I'm sorry San Francisco bars didn't live up to your standards as pickup joints. But maybe when you come back here sometime you could, you know, get a drink. Cheers.

You kinda made his point.

Hanging out with a group of guys with everyone drinking a ramos gin fizz while overlooking the Pacfic doesn't seem what the average guy would seek in a bar.

What does on point mean? Is this a drink you order everywhere and the quality at this place is comparable to others you've tried?

Is Gin a popular choice for a young person in sf?

"Ramos Gin Fizz is on point and you can sip it while looking out plate glass windows overlooking the Pacific."

Gay men certainly enjoy bars full of guys, which your wildly heteronormative claim seemed to forget.

Oh please. I'm gay, and this comment is ridiculous. You mean gay men enjoy being in bars where there are other people who they are sexually attracted to and who could be sexually attracted to them. Which is exactly the parent commenter's point. It's obvious the parent commenter is speaking about things from his own perspective, which doesn't make it some sort of "heteronormative" crime, it just means he's straight.

He literally said:

> if that's not why you go to bars, i have to ask -you'd enjoy going to bars with mostly men?

Which is a pretty dismissive normative claim (it excludes women too for what it's worth).

The comment he was replying to was clearly from the perspective of a straight man, as that previous comment was pushing back against the idea that a prime purpose of bars is to find sexually compatible mates.

It's OK if other people are having a conversation that isn't directly about you. Even better to reach out and see how it could apply to you if you think being in a bar with very few people you could be potentially attracted to would be less fun.

_Obviously_ he was writing from the perspective of a straight man.

I was pointing out that it was unfortunately that he structured his argument and tone in such a way that it was the reason he goes to bars, it was _the reason_.

It's not a big deal, but it's not helpful and worth thinking about.

> It's OK if other people are having a conversation that isn't directly about you.

(FWIW this does apply to me, I just think this stuff matters).

Have you considered that not all of the people you're talking to here are men?

Um, I go to bars to hang out with my friends while someone else makes tasty cocktails I'm too lazy to make for myself. News flash: most people who go to bars aren't there just to look at or hit on women. Yes, there are some who do, but that's not what bars are for.

It's one of many things happening in bars though. IMO it's another symptom of the lack of gender diversity in tech though.