News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:It's been a pretty insane 12 hours across the Bay Area by neilv on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:23PM (#24180946)
There's additional evidence that someone is adopting Colloquial Millennial in a Federal weather advisory:

> The biggest impact appears to have been numerous fire starts. The fire agencies are still flying recon but literally dozens of new fires from the North Bay, East Bay, South Bay, Santa Cruz mtns and down to Monterey.

I don't understand the need to say "literally" there.

Until recently, "literally" was a powerful word, arguably best held in reserve for important occasions. The most recent years of popular use have diluted it.

I don't believe that "literally" was intended to be said by a speaker numerous times each day, to be a filler word like "um", nor for general-purpose emphasis, nor to express unhinged enthusiasm, nor to convey "listen to me, I am the center of the universe right now!", nor to plead "I'm actually not lying this time".

I blame Rob Lowe for this (and other things).

Re:It's been a pretty insane 12 hours across the Bay Area by nickysielicki on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:36PM (#24181077)
What I take issue with is that there’s no verb in the second part of that sentence. The overuse of “literally” is one thing, but the fact that, “literally” has come to mean, “literally [there are]” bugs me a hell of a lot more.
Re:It's been a pretty insane 12 hours across the Bay Area by dahart on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:48PM (#24181654)
> the fact that, “literally” has come to mean, “literally [there are]” bugs me a hell of a lot more.

I think you’re jumping to an incorrect conclusion. There are numerous sentences in the article (and others from NOAA) with no verb, it has nothing to do with the word literally. This isn’t a piece of literary writing, it’s abbreviated language intended for a very narrow field of professional readers. There are many examples of other professional communication that similarly do not follow normal conventions for casual writing nor conversation. Look up airline or boat pilot transcripts, or medical science papers, or HAM radio users... a huge number of niche fields that have their own sub-languages.

Re:It's been a pretty insane 12 hours across the Bay Area by dahart on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:38PM (#24181099)
> I don’t understand the need to say “literally” there.

It’s used for emphasis, like it always has been for literally hundreds of years. The meaning has not changed recently, but it has been trendy for people to complain about it on the inter webs.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/misuse-of-lite...

Even if the meaning did change, that’s one of the neat things about language, it’s fluid and changes over time. We don’t need to blame anyone, because words changing over time is the natural state of things.

Re:It's been a pretty insane 12 hours across the Bay Area by neilv on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:53PM (#24181205)
Thank you, I stand corrected about the older history.

How I was taught, and how I saw the term used, seemed vastly more useful than it is now, post-Lowe.

Also, I'm not sure I agree with those dictionary company lexicographers abdicating responsibility. If they argue they're not taking a dump in language, then they're gold-plating someone else's dump.

Re:It's been a pretty insane 12 hours across the Bay Area by dahart on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:08PM (#24181322)
> I’m not sure I agree with those dictionary company lexicographers abdicating responsibility. If they argue they’re not taking a dump in language, then they’re gold-plating someone else’s dump.

I don’t understand what you mean or why you think they’re “taking a dump”. I’m getting the feeling that 1- you didn’t finish reading that article I linked to, and 2- you might not fully understand what lexicographers actually do. Their goal and their job is to understand how people actually use language, not to define it. Their job is not to establish any rules, nor to be enforcers or make sure people follow any such rules. They are documentarians, and as such their sole responsibility is to show how the word “literally” has been used in the past. The dictionary isn’t a set of unchangeable language axioms, it’s more like legal case law, it’s just a reference of some stuff people said.

Re:It's been a pretty insane 12 hours across the Bay Area by neilv on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:25PM (#24181464)
I did read the article, and I'm disagreeing with the assertion that the only role of a dictionary is to document history without judgment.

That might be the situation for the OED (and I owned a copy of the Compact Edition, so you might believe I might be sympathetic), but dictionaries are/were also issued/prescribed to students for usage guidance, long before we heard of particular venues' style guides. We'd see term senses declared by the dictionary to be "archaic", "slang", "vulgar", etc.

Let's see those lexicographers at least exercise some editorial warnings about the most egregious evolving senses.

Also, I'd like to see some official attribution of blame to Rob Lowe, for this particular episode of the destruction of language, as part of general decline and fall of civilization.

Sprinkle emoticons throughout this thread.

Re:It's been a pretty insane 12 hours across the Bay Area by dahart on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:39PM (#24181592)
> Let’s see those lexicographers at least exercise some editorial warnings

They did. There are notes on the definition that are also pointed out in the article I sent you.

> but dictionaries are/were also issued/prescribed to students for usage guidance

Sure, yeah, as a reference. I don’t follow, why does using dictionaries imply that lexicographers should not document history without judgement? Notes like ‘archaic’ and ‘vulgar’ are not judgements the lexicographers invented, right? Those are historical facts that are widely agreed upon by society before the dictionary writes about it.

What exactly is the “dump” you think Merriam-Webster left on English? I’m trying to understand your point, but not seeing it.

Re:It's been a pretty insane 12 hours across the Bay Area by dmoy on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:30PM (#24181021)
Language evolves

Linguistic prescriptivism is usually a losing endeavor.

Re:It's been a pretty insane 12 hours across the Bay Area by taeric on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:35PM (#24181074)
Pretty sure the first known uses of literally were in way that would literally upset you.
Re:It's been a pretty insane 12 hours across the Bay Area by meroes on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:32PM (#24181040)