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Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by ttul on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:18PM (#24180392)
I can foresee that one of the consequences of the pandemic will be a permanent change in the way that society views transmissible diseases. Prior to March, it was okay to gather in large groups and just get sick a few times a year. After the pandemic, I’m not sure people will be okay with that anymore.
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by fullshark on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:32PM (#24180507)
So many forecasts i hear about the fallout of this, such as everyone living in private fortresses in the suburbs working from home, not going into large groups ever again, abandoning the cities, conferences, and universities for online vocational training seem dystopian to be honest.
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by wittyreference on Sunday August 16, 2020 @07:45PM (#24182376)
And frankly, speaking from one of the hotspots: this isn't even in the rearview yet, and there's a huge fraction of people already grabbing denial with both hands and returning to life-as-usual. The idea that we won't get there when this is in the rearview mirror is like... it's not even a disagreeing forecast, it's actively ignoring what's happening right now.
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by icebergwarrior on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:34PM (#24181546)
If you're a backend engineer without social skills this type of life style seems perfect and desirable. Everyone else can't wait to meet people and interact again. There's a reason cities have existed for thousands of years.
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by ZanyProgrammer on Sunday August 16, 2020 @07:57PM (#24182440)
Yeah it’s more of a wish fulfillment than anything resembling an objective forecast.
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by pjkundert on Sunday August 16, 2020 @06:04PM (#24181753)
I look forward to the opportunity to live in community with other people who value liberty, in spite of the increased risks.

Others are (and should be!) free to live in fear and isolation.

Let’s see how it works out in a few generations.

Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by jerkstate on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:23PM (#24180437)
I think lots of people will, but some people won’t and will attempt to dictate how everyone else lives their lives, according to their priorities. How successful will they be?
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by brandonmenc on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:29PM (#24182945)
> After the pandemic, I’m not sure people will be okay with that anymore.

I expect there to be a huge, sustained upsurge in travel and socializing after Covid disappears.

The predictions that - for example - air travel will never recover, are just bizarre. If anything, there will be waiting lists to get a plane ticket.

Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by samatman on Sunday August 16, 2020 @08:30PM (#24182615)
I hope it leads to the widespread adoption of the East Asian attitude that it is incredibly rude and inconsiderate to be sniffling, coughing, and sneezing, in public, without wearing a mask.

I think it's quite unlikely that it leads to a permanent taboo on large gatherings. They're too much fun.

Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by risaacs99 on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:34PM (#24180532)
I always find it interesting how people can think completely differently about this topic depending on how they frame it in their mind. If you think about it from the perspective of personal risk, then young people bristle at being told what to do. If you think about it from the perspective of contagion and at risk people who want to be able to participate in society, you would have a different perspective.

Hopefully we can agree that years where we lose 100,000 people from influenza are tragic, even if we've become accustomed to it. The optimistic possible outcome from this pandemic is maybe that rapid, inexpensive in-home testing for common virus infections becomes widespread. That'd allow a responsible person to test themselves before they went to a sporting event.

It'd also be wonderful if we invested more in a universal influenza vaccination. That's been right around the corner for decades now.

Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by TheOtherHobbes on Sunday August 16, 2020 @06:08PM (#24181780)
A healthcare system that doesn't bankrupt hundreds of thousands of people a year would also be a good start.

It turns out to be very hard to handle health risks politically rather than medically. Most early deaths are caused by cancer and heart disease, and both are preventable. Covid is terrible, but in terms of death toll it's not in the same league as the regular killers.

When it comes to avoidable death, this supposedly enlightened and scientifically educated culture actually operates at Victorian levels of public health. Obesity and poor nutrition are at epidemic levels and there's barely any formal cultural awareness of the political and social problems caused by emotional stressors, personality disorders, and other forms of psychological illness promoted by toxic workplace conditions and both social and mainstream media.

Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by umvi on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:57PM (#24181711)
How is my own immune system going to improve if I never expose myself to other people?
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by ttul on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:41PM (#24202505)
Your immune system is being exposed to pathogens all day long just from your immediate environment. You don't have to be exposed to thousands of people to develop a healthy immune system.
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by Scoundreller on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:24PM (#24180444)
I’m hoping my cat’s vet and others will stop looking at me like a monster for skipping most vaccines. A cat that no longer goes outside and occupants that don’t interact with other cats basically means the cat is under total isolation.
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by sweetbacon on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:28PM (#24180475)
Until it eats that bug or mouse that slid into the domicile in winter, or escapes outside by accident, etc.
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by Scoundreller on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:54PM (#24180681)
And which virus would that be that lives in cats and bugs? And the cat’s too slow to catch a mouse nowadays. But it’s the same situation: most of what you’re vaccinating against is feline specific.

The cat’s free to go outside at any time, but nowadays prefers the comforts of being indoors.

The only solid argument against my strategy is nosocomial infections from the vet themselves.

Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by acituan on Sunday August 16, 2020 @06:44PM (#24182019)
Mosquitos, snails, slugs and fleas can absolutely carry worms to your cat. You can carry fleas on your clothing for example if you pet an infected animal on the street.
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by liability on Sunday August 16, 2020 @07:09PM (#24182180)
What do worms or fleas have to do with vaccines?
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by acituan on Sunday August 16, 2020 @07:46PM (#24182383)
Periodic deworming, if you are to use prescription dewormer or get it in the form of a shot, will require vet visits.
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by liability on Sunday August 16, 2020 @08:08PM (#24182486)
Yeah but that's not vaccination. His cat's vet is upset he doesn't vaccinate the cat, so I think it's safe to say he's not avoiding the vet in general.
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by acituan on Sunday August 16, 2020 @08:50PM (#24182711)
OP said

> A cat that no longer goes outside and occupants that don’t interact with other cats basically means the cat is under total isolation.

Which is not entirely true. Even indoor cats can get worms, and periodic deworming is part of preventative care as vaccinations. The fact that deworming vs vaccinations interact with the cat’s immune system differently is an implementation detail that is inconsequential to this discussion.

> so I think it's safe to say he's not avoiding the vet in general.

That’s not how I understand it.

Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by Scoundreller on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:08PM (#24182813)
> can get

And I “can get” yellow fever if someone with it comes back to my neighbourhood, a mosquito bites them and then bites me. But it’s largely a waste of money for me to get vaccinated anyway.

Considering risk vs. cost of prevention seems to be lost when dealing with vets (whom also often lack strong evidence for their interventions).

If anything, it’s the humans in the household that could benefit from preventative de-worming, not the cat exclusively eating canned cat food.

Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by acituan on Sunday August 16, 2020 @10:31PM (#24183316)
> If anything, it’s the humans in the household that could benefit from preventative de-worming

If you have a habit of nibbling on the bugs and the flies that wander into your house like cats do, I think indeed you could benefit from deworming.

Besides, if yellow fever is carried as frequently as worms in your neighborhood, you should definitely get vaccinated.

Finally, your cost-benefit analysis is a strawman argument. OP thinks their cat is completely isolated, I posited that it is not. I am not saying they have to get treatment nor I am moralizing them not doing it. It is perfectly fine to take an educated risk, but that hinges on the education of what vectors are still available to your indoor cat.

Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by Scoundreller on Monday August 17, 2020 @11:38AM (#24188243)
To even take an educated risk, there would need to be a model of that risk. Fleas are an age-old problem. I simply reject that the risk is high enough if the best evidence for infection risk from vets is “it could happen” when the risk factors are so low.

I’ll consider anecdotes and case reports on a new unknown disease, but not for one that’s been around since antiquity. Or there was research indicating that the risk is low in these circumstances, but it’s suppressed because it’s not the narrative that the study sponsors want anyone to hear.

It happens in human research, I wouldn’t put it past vet research.

Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by acituan on Monday August 17, 2020 @12:47PM (#24188981)
> To even take an educated risk, there would need to be a model of that risk.

I consider the move from "my cat is completely isolated indoors" to "there are still vectors of transmission" an improvement of that model. Demanding that we need the exact likelihoods or otherwise completely reject the possibility is fallacious.

> Or there was research indicating that the risk is low in these circumstances, but it’s suppressed because it’s not the narrative that the study sponsors want anyone to hear.

It is interesting that your standard of evidence is much lower for this hypothesis of conspiracy and you use it to negate your cat's threat model.

I agree the risk is low, but your initial responses "what virus would live in cats and bugs" "the cat is under total isolation" "cat is too slow to catch a mouse" etc show that you were not informed on this topic. To give an anecdote, an odd fly, spider, mosquito etc walks in to my friend's house all the time, despite all windows being screened, and their fully indoor cat would go after them with joy every time he finds them (he would try to eat them). They don't do periodic deworming either, but they still accept that there is a risk albeit small, and don't externalize their discomfort to conspiratorial veterinarians.

Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by saagarjha on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:40PM (#24183015)
Why not give you cat vaccines? Cost?
Re:Professional sporting events increase seasonal influenza ... by pyromine on Sunday August 16, 2020 @03:30PM (#24180494)
Nope, you should still give your cat vaccines. Your reasoning is silly