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Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by iaml on Thursday August 13, 2020 @12:06PM (#24144844)
I don't understand why they don't just create a patreon/github sponsors/bitcoin donations for core ff/rust/mdn teams salaries and call it a day. I'm sure they'll get more than enough contributions to make it viable.
Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by Jach on Thursday August 13, 2020 @12:40PM (#24145283)
Doubtful at standard software engineer rates living in SV[0]. I remember being kinda surprised my first visit to SF, that Mozilla had an office right on the waterfront. Seemed kind of wasteful.

They've also continuously lost lots of good will they had in the mid to late 2000s, both from end users and developers. I'm sure a lot of people would be happy to declare good riddance if chromium ever got a decent extensions framework like Firefox used to have.

They might be able to get some grants.

[0] Maybe this would be a good thing, though, get rid of all the people working on stuff (and often more expensively, managing the working on stuff) who aren't in it for the vision. The money-oriented who still want to work on browser tech can be absorbed by Google/Apple/MS/Brave/Opera. But it's risky, as they might find there's no one left.

Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by cmrdporcupine on Thursday August 13, 2020 @01:21PM (#24145753)
I like Mozilla, I like Firefox, I like Rust, I like that they offer a remote work option, that they're kind of the anti-Google in a way (even while taking $$ from Google, but whatever). I like their whole philosophy at a certain level. But when I interviewed with them last year I honestly could not understand where the money was coming from to pay for all the perks and compensation and the offices and the bi-annual company-wide gatherings, etc. And the number of people!. Etc. The whole thing seemed... too much ... for what they needed to do.

(Don't get me wrong, I am not underestimating the complexity of their browser -- I work full-time in the Chromium code base, so I have a pretty good idea what a modern browser looks like inside.)

In any case the position wasn't a fit. I didn't get my chance to say no to it because the team I interviewed with didn't think I was a fit either (for imho dubious reasons, but whatever). But from talking to people work there... I dodged a bullet big time.

I wish them the best, but I didn't get the impression from the letter and the composition of the layoffs that the rethinking is really happening.

Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by jfb on Thursday August 13, 2020 @01:45PM (#24145999)
All of the money was coming from Google's antitrust lawyers.
Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by dependenttypes on Thursday August 13, 2020 @01:33PM (#24145885)
Maybe it is time for Mozilla to move away from SV then. It is not as if there are no competent developers who would be willing to work on Firefox for $50k/year in other states or even countries.

Heck, the money that they get from google per year is enough to pay for 1000 developers paid at $100k/year each for 5 years.

Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by throwaway3neu94 on Thursday August 13, 2020 @12:47PM (#24145359)
Who wants to donate when their CEO makes 2.5million/year?
Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by bsder on Thursday August 13, 2020 @06:23PM (#24150306)
Exactly, why not fire all the VP's and up including the CEO?

That will save a LOT more money and have a better impact.

Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by yarrel on Thursday August 13, 2020 @12:52PM (#24145423)
I'm very glad that after I bought a VPN subscription from them they only needed to have sold another 49,999 or so to pay for that.
Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by iaml on Thursday August 13, 2020 @01:20PM (#24145740)
The point of this option would be that those wouldn't go to CEO at all.
Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by newen on Thursday August 13, 2020 @02:04PM (#24146222)
Money is fungible.
Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by jlokier on Thursday August 13, 2020 @02:37PM (#24146666)
Not when conditions are attached to the payment or donation.
Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by newen on Thursday August 13, 2020 @03:28PM (#24147358)
Even when it is. This should be obvious. Not even sure why I'm spelling this out. Say total amount of money an organization has is $X + $Y. Group A is assigned $X in funding. Group B is assigned $Y in funding.

Group A gets $Z in donation with conditions attached so it only gets used by Group A.

Then the organization assigns $X - $Z funding to Group A and assigns $Y + $Z funding to Group B. Group A is happy because it still has $X from the donation and doesn't complain. Group B is happy because it can now spend $2.5 million on the CEO.

Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by jlokier on Thursday August 13, 2020 @03:51PM (#24147743)
Counterpoints, which I'm surprised I have to spell out, are:

1. Limits. The above doesn't apply when $Z > $X, above which the attachment has full effect.

2. Reputation. The sources of recurring $X + $Y have decision making powers with a time lag. They may not be willing to give $X + $Y again if they know it was entirely spent on group B last time.

3. Anticipation. Organization decision makers know 2. Which makes donations with conditions attached into a signal with some effect, rather than something freely fungible with no pressure.

If we were to plot a curve of notional pressure and effect on the organization's budgeting decisions, I would expect a curve increasing with the ratio $Z/($X+$Y). A very shallow curve perhaps. But not a flat zero in the range 0..$X as you are suggesting.

Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by newen on Thursday August 13, 2020 @04:49PM (#24148864)
I simplified a lot obviously but an organizational can last years and years before seeing the effects of reputation pressure. And above applies fine even if $Z > $X modulo nitpicking.
Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by _jal on Thursday August 13, 2020 @12:19PM (#24145009)
> I'm sure they'll get more than enough

How sure are you? Would you be sure enough to bet your child's health care on it?

Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by AsyncAwait on Thursday August 13, 2020 @12:43PM (#24145325)
As an aside, the fact that in the U.S. your healthcare is tied to your employer is absolutely nuts.
Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by zettadam on Thursday August 13, 2020 @01:11PM (#24145628)
In other countries your health insurance payments are deducted automatically from your paycheck before you get it. Is it not the same or very similar?
Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by AsyncAwait on Thursday August 13, 2020 @01:16PM (#24145697)
> In other countries your health insurance payments are deducted automatically from your paycheck before you get it. Is it not the same or very similar?

Not at all, In places with national single insurer system, (medicare for all), like the UK where am based, the way it works is that you do contribute to National Insurance effectively as part of your taxes, (usually less than you'd pay in the U.S.), BUT if you switch employers or even are unemployed, you still have that healthcare available to you.

Also, all the doctors, hospitals etc. are technically always "in network".

Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by wolco on Thursday August 13, 2020 @03:07PM (#24147036)
Health insurance? Sounds like a scam. It comes from income taxes and other revenue in Canada.
Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by iaml on Thursday August 13, 2020 @01:19PM (#24145731)
Companies can contribute too, you know. I'm sure there are some that would be negatively impacted by firefox going down. And besides, it is possible to measure the interest before committing.
Re:"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla by jhatemyjob on Thursday August 13, 2020 @01:20PM (#24145739)
I would be shocked if it surpassed $2M/y. And that only pays for 10 engineers