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Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by pixl97 on Monday August 10, 2020 @12:48AM (#24105653)
And I mean, that is good of you to have a moral backbone, unfortunately there are many people behind you that will do the same job in software and they can be located anywhere in the world.
Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by walrus01 on Monday August 10, 2020 @01:03AM (#24105727)
In the current state of things, that is factually true.

However the same argument could be applied to labor abuses in the textile/garment and shoe manufacturing industry. Most people who follow news are probably aware that about 20 years ago Nike, Adidas and other brands went through a period of terrible public relations disasters, after the working conditions in some of their shoe factories in developing nations were exposed by journalists.

The argument that could have been made at that time would also have been "well but if we don't employ these people, somebody else will just do the same thing with equally terrible labor/human rights violations somewhere else in the world, with even cheaper factories".

The situation today is not great, but it is significantly improved from how it was twenty years ago. There are third party neutral inspection/oversight agencies. Companies in the garment industry are forced to make public commitments to labor rights and reasonable working conditions, and to allow external auditing. They can't just hand wave away the problem and say "but if we don't do it , someone else will.."

Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by pixl97 on Monday August 10, 2020 @01:34AM (#24105897)
And again, the analogs in software are much more, messy.

A shoe is a physical artifact. It must be made somewhere out of something. Software is much more flexible. If I tell you to build an 'ethical' piece of software with an extensible API, it will only take a tiny amount of work to make it do something unethical.

And much like the shoe companies abusing labour's, that had nothing to do with the engineers that made a a product line, but the management that is driven to ever lower costs.

Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by walrus01 on Monday August 10, 2020 @01:37AM (#24105913)
Also unlike a shoe, the management of a company with ethically produced/designed software could fire all of the original developers and sell the company and its IP. To an organization that would make API changes/data storage changes and it would suddenly become something much more harmful.
Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by imtringued on Monday August 10, 2020 @07:58AM (#24108305)
It's very easy for management to not disclose unethical intentions. All they have to do is nothing.
Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by quickthrower2 on Monday August 10, 2020 @01:26AM (#24105853)
The more abstract the problem the less people care. Police suffocating someone to death > 1,000,000 people being subtly spied on. "I got nothing to hide" after all.
Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by walrus01 on Monday August 10, 2020 @01:35AM (#24105902)
The farther away and more abstract the problem, it's absolutely more difficult to get people to care. Trying to get Americans to care about what's going on with prison camps in Xinjiang province right now is difficult, if not impossible, outside of the subset of people who deeply care about the issues involved.
Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by tekknik on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @08:39AM (#24119648)
In this specific example say we do care, then what? What will it change? (Not theoretical change, actual change)
Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by MaxBarraclough on Monday August 10, 2020 @05:05AM (#24107093)
> "I got nothing to hide" after all

But that's a thoroughly discredited argument.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21416115

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21923548

Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by quickthrower2 on Monday August 10, 2020 @05:26AM (#24107217)
Sorry that’s a /s
Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by MaxBarraclough on Monday August 10, 2020 @06:27AM (#24107583)
Ah, got it :-P
Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by commandlinefan on Monday August 10, 2020 @09:27AM (#24108976)
> good of you to have a moral backbone

I don't want other people making decisions on morality for me. There are people who don't believe that software developers should develop software for the U.S. government because they don't like the way immigration law is being enforced. I'll make my own decisions about what is and isn't "moral", thanks.

Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by enumjorge on Monday August 10, 2020 @10:29AM (#24109616)
Where did this come from? The parent comment simply commended the grandparent comment for not bribing a government official to push a project with poor privacy for users. I don’t see why anyone would see that as a challenge to their moral code.