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Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by aflag on Sunday August 09, 2020 @08:24AM (#24099134)
I've seen that idea being tossed around, but are there any sort of studies showing that the increased face touching can indeed make the virus spread more than not wearing masks? It's a geniune question, I'd like to see studies related to that.

For me, it's not really obvious that more face touching (even if that happens in significant numbers across the population), causes the virus to spread more than it would have without face masks. Reason being that it seems like spread through surfaces is not as bad as through the air, so making the air cleaner seems better than making the surfaces cleaner to me.

Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by russholmes on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:03AM (#24099338)
I think the reason that various authorities advised against masks is political - there simply weren't enough and to direct the supply to clinical workers.
Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by throw_away on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:17AM (#24099415)
Which is damning in that they treated us like children who couldn't handle the truth and were also so unimaginative that they did not consider alternative face coverings.
Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by russholmes on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:47AM (#24099618)
The government communication in the UK has been lamentable. Confusing, inconsistent and patronising. On the other hand, we had idiots who stripped the supermarket shelves of toilet rolls and canned tomatoes for months despite being implored not to do so. If they had gone after the masks...
Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by Johnjonjoan on Sunday August 09, 2020 @10:36AM (#24099884)
Yes we should not have taken masks that would go to the NHS but don't forget those masks should have been in government stockpiles well out of reach. How can we blame and punish the publics self control (or lack of it) when it's a government failure that caused the issue. Had we all bought masks and the state made them instead of redundant hospitals perhaps we would be in a much better place (less NHS casualties and physical/mental suffering).

All in all it just doesn't sit right with me to justify the government's decision without mentioning they were the ones that put us in the position where it had to be made.

Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by mannykannot on Sunday August 09, 2020 @10:13AM (#24099767)
There is now, and was then, plenty of evidence to suppose that enough people would not handle the truth responsibly, and would panic-buy masks rather than adopt alternatives.
Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by xapata on Sunday August 09, 2020 @01:42PM (#24101307)
Is the US government so impotent that it can't ask retailers to ship their supplies of masks to a commandeered warehouse? Of course some would go missing, but substantially all would arrive.
Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by throw_away on Sunday August 09, 2020 @02:01PM (#24101498)
Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by xapata on Thursday August 13, 2020 @02:24PM (#24146481)
That means they lied without purpose.
Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by ncarroll on Sunday August 09, 2020 @10:46AM (#24099947)
I personally think one aspect that doesn't get much attention is the matter of public education. At the arrival of the pandemic here in Germany the initial advice was to seriously implement hygiene rules: 1.) Wash hands thoroughly and often, 30 sec long, plenty of regular household brand hand soap, 2.) When coughing or sneezing, turn away from others and put your elbow in front of your face and 3.) Keep distance of minimum 1.5 meters and 4.) Limit contact with people outside your home environment wherever possible.

Assuming everyone followed this advice, at that particular moment we didn't need masks so much (most people were in lockdown anyway) and besides the fact that there were not enough medical masks to go around, there was more danger in using generic face coverings than not because the average Joe didn't know how to do so safely and the virus was not yet under any sort of control.

Around Mid-May, we had a different circumstance. The general public had taken the hygiene rules to heart and been in lockdown quite awhile and the sun came out - Spring sprang, the numbers went down (thanks to lots of cooperation from the general public) and that was when the public education effort went in to the next phase: To give official advice and instruction on how to properly handle face coverings in a way that they help instead of hinder.

Meanwhile everyone, even Grandparents, my mother, and some people's recalcitrant Uncles know how to use Skype and Zoom. We wash hands like surgeons, we can and do handle face coverings without making ourselves sick and I think, for a public education effort that started 5 months ago and was directed at 90 million people, that is simply huge. I try to remain wary of the impulse to judge what we did yesterday with what we know today.

Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by Mountain_Skies on Sunday August 09, 2020 @11:51AM (#24100370)
That was a colossal mistake. Not only have they ruined their credibility in this pandemic but they've guaranteed that there will be panic buying during all future pandemics. It was a one-time weapon that provided marginal benefit and terrible long term consequences that go far beyond contagious diseases. Don't be surprised if anti-vaxxers use this incident for decades to come as proof that health authorities lie.
Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by Kiro on Sunday August 09, 2020 @08:46AM (#24099250)
I've only heard what the state epidemiologists say but here's the Finnish study that the current recommendations are based on: https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/report_little_or_no_benef...

With that said, Finland is re-evaluating face masks it as we speak so it may change.

Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by aflag on Sunday August 09, 2020 @08:54AM (#24099297)
> five of eight systematic reviews found no evidence that the use of masks would provide any benefit in controlling sources of infection or protecting healthy persons from exposure to respiratory infections

Unfortunately, that news article does not contain the links to those reviews. Maybe they are part of the full report, but I can't read Finnish.

Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by russholmes on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:42AM (#24099587)
According to this research in the Lancet, masks help but not as much as physical distancing.

2 m distance reduces risk by 10x face mask reduces risk by 6x eye protection by 5x There is some uncertainty in these figures

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by lol2143651 on Sunday August 09, 2020 @09:59AM (#24099674)
Results

> The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Conclusions

> This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/

Re:Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering e... by bitcurious on Sunday August 09, 2020 @01:03PM (#24100986)
To be clear, this compared cloth vs. medical masks. There was no “unmasked” arm. So the caution was of the “given the choice, choose medical masks.” Also this measures auto-protective properties of mask wearing, not preventing spread to others.