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Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by WalterBright on Thursday July 30, 2020 @05:35AM (#23996206)
Ability to pay is not the same thing as willingness to pay. Supply&demand does work.
Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by ethanbond on Thursday July 30, 2020 @05:37AM (#23996219)
Land is in fixed supply and everyone needs land to work, sleep, and exist upon.

Neither UBI nor any other policy changes that.

Housing costs in expensive markets are set primarily by land values and not by the value of the capital/building upon the land.

Yes you can make a dent in the problem it by zoning for more units, but you cannot zone more land into existence in high value areas.

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by WalterBright on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:29AM (#23996531)
> Land is in fixed supply and everyone needs land to work, sleep, and exist upon.

For those who are convinced supply&demand doesn't work for dwellings, buy a rental and charge 10x the market rate. See how that goes. This applies to any business. For example, try selling something on Amazon/Ebay/Etsy/Craigslist. You can charge whatever you like for it. Whether someone will buy it is another thing entirely.

Everyone needs food, too, but ironically it's the unneeded food (like Starbucks) that's expensive.

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by anxcv on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:53AM (#23996683)
Well, Starbucks (overpriced garbage coffee) is something like 50 times more expensive than making coffee at home.

If you work in an expensive city, pay $2000 for one room, good luck finding a room for $40.

It is precisely the problem that you cannot opt out of the housing market, at least when you need a calm and safe environment to think.

Even when you don't, it is probably illegal to set up a tent somewhere, and legal camping sites are pretty expensive and horrible, too.

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by ethanbond on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:46AM (#23996637)
Today how that goes is you get huge tax cuts for not making money and keeping valuable resources off the market.

How that should go is you get taxed at the same rate as if you had set it at a price it could be rented at, therefore encouraging you to set your price correctly.

That’s the LVT, that’s basically the entire thing.

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by WalterBright on Thursday July 30, 2020 @07:13PM (#24003832)
> huge tax cuts for not making money

Nobody pays income tax if they aren't making money. That's why they're called "income" taxes.

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by ethanbond on Thursday July 30, 2020 @07:52PM (#24004134)
Yep, and that’s why I’m advocating a “land value” tax instead.
Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by bpatel576 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @08:28AM (#23997293)
You have to think of it in a deeper context than it being binary. It has very similar properties to oil. It's also fixed, but technology has done some phenomenal things to extract more of it with greater efficiency. The same is true for land and housing. UBI, self driving cars, and a greater shift away from working in offices are all going to change how we live and the type of land we will want to live on.
Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by onion2k on Thursday July 30, 2020 @10:18AM (#23998453)
Land is in fixed supply and everyone needs land to work, sleep, and exist upon.

Density of land use isn't fixed. We can build in three dimensions.

Also there's tons of land that's hardly used at all in the form of golf courses. We should build cheap housing on them.

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by ALittleLight on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:13AM (#23996426)
I don't think land is fixed in supply. We can build up and down and in the far future, into space. Either way, we are seemingly far from land being the bottleneck at the moment.
Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by bmitc on Thursday July 30, 2020 @05:39AM (#23996234)
> Supply&demand does work.

Works for whom?

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by WalterBright on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:26AM (#23996507)
Those in a free market where prices aren't set by the government.
Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by bmitc on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:46AM (#23996641)
So you're saying that it's hypothetically everyone then? I say hypothetically because the U.S. is only partially a free market (i.e., not a free market), and so that makes any appeal to the "free market" hold little water.

In what way is the increasing ratio of rent to income working for renters?

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by bancb on Thursday July 30, 2020 @07:18AM (#23996832)
The government is a monopolist land owner that hands out new land at prices designed to please existing private land owners and lobbyists. This is as far removed from a free market as an absolutist monarchy.
Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by anxcv on Thursday July 30, 2020 @06:58AM (#23996717)
Prices are set by the government via zoning laws, sky high prices for new land and importing millions of new people like in Europe.

Where those in power comfortably sit in inherited properties and wonder why the plebs does not eat cake.

I believe in the free market, but the housing market is not free.

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by WalterBright on Thursday July 30, 2020 @07:11AM (#23996793)
> Prices are set by the government via zoning laws

Zoning laws are not price fixing. Practically every dwelling in a zone has a different price on it, because of supply&demand.

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by zo1 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:28AM (#23999285)
Zoning laws have a restrictive effect on supply, which in turn has an effect on prices.
Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by WalterBright on Thursday July 30, 2020 @04:24PM (#24002478)
That's quite different from setting the prices.
Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by nec4b on Thursday July 30, 2020 @07:12AM (#23996800)
For everybody. Like any other physical law of nature.
Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by dm3 on Thursday July 30, 2020 @07:40AM (#23996958)
That's not a fact. This is an interesting take on the "laws" of a classical economy[1].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsUS3ynhAKY&feature=emb_logo

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by nec4b on Thursday July 30, 2020 @07:52AM (#23997039)
Of course it is a fact, it is one of the most basic laws of nature. It can be observed in interactions of other biological species not only ours. It would still hold if there were no humans. Claiming otherwise is like denying gravity.
Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by claudeganon on Thursday July 30, 2020 @08:46AM (#23997449)
The “law” of supply and demand doesn’t even work across all categories of the economy, so it’s not at all like the law of gravity.

https://www.businessinsider.com/supply-and-demand-model-of-l...

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by Nasrudith on Thursday July 30, 2020 @11:39AM (#23999419)
A model working and producing a personally.desired outcome are two separate things.

The assumption of a labor shortage because of low nominal unemployment is incorrect - the gig economy is thin margin as it is even with poor pay. It utilizes the previously "idle" labor in a marginal business model but without sufficient demand in other sectors it only provides a low floor.

Re:Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0 by nec4b on Thursday July 30, 2020 @09:02AM (#23997598)
You are citing a political opinion from a newspaper to prove somehow supply and demand is not a natural law. What is next, an article in Astrology Today arguing 1 + 1 != 2.