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Re:Modified Gravity Theory Passes a Critical Test by pdonis on Wednesday July 29, 2020 @10:53AM (#23987302)
> Am I correct in my understanding that these alternative theories are trying to prove that there's a way to explain these discrepancies without inventing something unobserved?

I would say MOND is just postulating a different "unobserved" thing--an alternate theory of gravity, or an additional "field" that looks like an alternative theory of gravity, instead of dark matter. I don't think MOND has any advantage in the Occam's Razor department.

Or, to put it another way, the word "unobserved" is not quite correct. We have actual observations that can't be accounted for, as best we can tell, with our current theories of physics, without adding some new element. Dark matter and MOND are just two different choices for what new element to add. Neither one can say it's not adding anything new.

> Why is that so controversial? To me, again as an outside observer, it feels so counter-intuitive to _invent_ a new type of matter you can't observe than to just say that your calculation is close but not right and to start over

MOND is not just doing a different calculation that is claimed to be more accurate within existing physics. It is adding new physics. See above.

"Starting over" would be something like finding errors in the calculations based on existing physics (GR and the observed distribution of visible matter) that, when corrected, removed the discrepancy between observations and theory. Nobody has done that, and the calculations based on existing physics have been checked every which way, so it seems highly unlikely that there is an error lurking there that hasn't been found.

> why the scientific community came to accept the one that is accepted

My understanding is that MOND, in general, does not close the gap between observation and theory as well as dark matter does. The paper referenced in this article appears to be claiming that its version of MOND "catches up" with dark matter in terms of closing that gap. I haven't had a chance to read the paper in detail so I can't say how credible I think that claim is at this point.

Re:Modified Gravity Theory Passes a Critical Test by dogma1138 on Wednesday July 29, 2020 @11:28AM (#23987700)
Dark matter (at least any of the non cold baryonic matter and standard model WIMP candidates) adds new physics too it’s just adds it in different field of physics that often is much less related to cosmology than gravity is.
Re:Modified Gravity Theory Passes a Critical Test by pdonis on Thursday July 30, 2020 @02:24PM (#24001372)
> Dark matter (at least any of the non cold baryonic matter and standard model WIMP candidates) adds new physics too

I never said it didn't. The point is that both MOND and dark matter add new physics.

Re:Modified Gravity Theory Passes a Critical Test by Konohamaru on Wednesday July 29, 2020 @06:27PM (#23992271)
> I don't think MOND has any advantage in the Occam's Razor department.

It has one: there's no need to worry about finding a dark matter particle when there's no room in the standard model for one. I'm surprised how astrophysicists take for granted that such a particle will show up in a collider eventually, if they even think that far ahead.

Re:Modified Gravity Theory Passes a Critical Test by cthalupa on Wednesday July 29, 2020 @10:16PM (#23993714)
>It has one: there's no need to worry about finding a dark matter particle when there's no room in the standard model for one.

This is a weird argument. The standard model is incomplete, we know it's incomplete, we don't expect it to be complete, and MOND doesn't fit in the standard model either.

Even if you limit it to things we have observed, the standard model simply doesn't explain gravity. It doesn't explain why neutrinos have mass. It doesn't explain matter/antimatter asymmetry.

We know gravity exists. We know neutrinos have mass. We know there is more matter than antimatter in the universe. These aren't remotely controversial, and the standard model either doesn't incorporate them or gets them wrong.

Re:Modified Gravity Theory Passes a Critical Test by Konohamaru on Wednesday July 29, 2020 @10:46PM (#23993974)
I said there is one advantage MOND has in terms of parsimony. It may not be a decisive advantage, but it is an advantage.
Re:Modified Gravity Theory Passes a Critical Test by pdonis on Thursday July 30, 2020 @02:23PM (#24001365)
> I said there is one advantage MOND has in terms of parsimony.

It's not an advantage at all. Parsimony would mean not having to postulate as many new entities. MOND postulates one new entity; so does dark matter.

Re:Modified Gravity Theory Passes a Critical Test by marcosdumay on Wednesday July 29, 2020 @03:17PM (#23990538)
> I don't think MOND has any advantage in the Occam's Razor department.

MOND has a much more homogeneous behavior, that requires many less variables added to your theory. So I'll disagree, it has the Occam's Razor preference - for the same reason that ever instance of it has been quickly falsified.

Re:Modified Gravity Theory Passes a Critical Test by pdonis on Thursday July 30, 2020 @02:25PM (#24001383)
> MOND has a much more homogeneous behavior, that requires many less variables added to your theory.

How so?

Re:Modified Gravity Theory Passes a Critical Test by marcosdumay on Friday July 31, 2020 @01:32PM (#24011156)
Dark matter theories can fit any mass distribution without a change to the theory.
Re:Modified Gravity Theory Passes a Critical Test by zenethian on Wednesday July 29, 2020 @11:52AM (#23988096)
Thanks! I think this helps clarify it quite a lot. The use of the word "observed" was a critical part of my misunderstanding, as to me it felt like it was saying that by not being observed it was "made up" instead, when really it's more accurate to say that it's part of the model and we know it exists but have a hard time describing it?