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A comment on Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, and landing tests. Parent comment

Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by thetinguy on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @12:08AM (#23972196)
No they haven’t. Flying is the easy part. The hard parts are navigating and communicating. Even then, even the largest airports will only support precision approaches on some runways in some directions because maintaining ILS equipment is expensive. What happens when you push the button and there’s a massive crosswind across the ILS runway? Also communication standards have ossified such that the only way you can talk to ATC is through 50s era radios. That means any fully autonomous aircraft would have to be able to accept verbal commands and produce verbal acknowledgments. The technology is so bad that a simple stuck mic can shutdown an airport. https://youtu.be/Wcq6KipBOro
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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by m463 on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @12:30AM (#23972282)
I was thinking more "broadcast we are under attack, or pilot unconscious" as the communication, and land (subject to external control?)

They've had autoland for a while. Maybe in this context it means the nearest ILS runway, or nearest externally directed ILS runway. (just not landing in the side of a skyscraper)

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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by thetinguy on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @12:36AM (#23972310)
Yes and auto land capability is not always available. Even today object avoidance is a hard issue. What happens when the aircraft flies into a flock of birds or some other obstacle, like another aircraft on the way to the runway. What happens when two planes both push the button at the same time and decide to both use the same runway? Autopilot even in aviation is a misnomer.
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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by toohotatopic on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @01:55AM (#23972714)
What happens if they fly into a building because they don't have the button? It's a management of risks.

Besides, there can be a back-link and information updates for the landing box to manage situations with two or more planes in emergency mode.

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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by thetinguy on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @02:37AM (#23972948)
Having a unpredictable button which may significantly increase risk to an aircraft and others is not risk management no matter how dire or remote it’s predicted usage would be. First thing any knowledgeable malicious actor would do is pull the breakers associated with the system or simply disable it. This button would have a way to disable it assuming accidental or malicious activation right?
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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by toohotatopic on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @02:58AM (#23973071)
You will have a hard time creating a situation where pushing the button for an emergency landing creates a disaster.
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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by foldr on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @03:59AM (#23973450)
It's very easy to imagine: the plane lands on top of another plane at a busy airport.
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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by toohotatopic on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @09:12AM (#23975346)
That happens if everything goes wrong but you cannot create that situation intentionally. Usually, pushing the emergency button would send an emergency signal, and air traffic control would clear the airport. Landing on top of another plane is an emergency within the emergency - very, very unlikely.
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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by foldr on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @10:15AM (#23975994)
You can't just "clear" a big airport. There's also no way to guarantee that the emergency signal would be received.
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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by toohotatopic on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @11:56AM (#23977078)
You also can't guarantee that you won't be hit by a meteorite and yet you leave your house.

If you worry about the signal not being received and the inability of air traffic control to spot the irregularity, then only initiate safety landing when the plane receives an answer-signal. Otherwise, let the plane fly however it wants and let it crash somewhere randomly because most places are better equipped to handle a random plane landing than a regular airport.

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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by foldr on Wednesday July 29, 2020 @04:27AM (#23984511)
I think you're forgetting that the button itself would only be useful in extremely unlikely contingencies. But sure, you can spin a story about a bunch of interconnected automated systems always working correctly in highly unusual circumstances. Doesn't usually pan out that way in practice.
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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by cmurf on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @12:38AM (#23972323)
Autoland isn't possible on just any ILS. Autoland doesn't exit the runway either.
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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by chinathrow on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @02:45AM (#23972998)
Correct, but at least there is "brake to vacate" the runway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_to_Vacate

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Re:Airbus' self-flying plane just completed taxi, take-off, ... by jlg23 on Tuesday July 28, 2020 @03:02AM (#23973088)
When a pilot declares an emergency s/he can rely on the airport and airspace around it being cleared by flight control. If a hypothetical red button was pushed, there would be a standard procedure the aircraft computers execute which in turn can be relied on by flight control.
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