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Re:My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Intern... by nordsieck on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:18PM (#23935363)
> As a non-profit library the plaintiffs effectively have to show that the Internet Archive acted in bad faith[1] in order to receive statutory damages.

>> The court shall remit statutory damages in any case where an infringer believed and had reasonable grounds for believing that his or her use of the copyrighted work was a fair use under section 107

Specifically, the plaintiffs have to show that uncontrolled digital lending does not constitute fair use.

That doesn't seem very difficult to me.

Re:My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Intern... by hnick on Friday July 24, 2020 @01:16AM (#23935971)
If I'm an educator and I want to select parts of a work to present in class, usually I'd want to view the whole work and select the pieces from that. That's how it'd work when using a traditional library.

Is this basically what they are suggesting here? They are supplying the copies, and it's up to the users whether or not they break the law from there?

Re:My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Intern... by nordsieck on Friday July 24, 2020 @06:53AM (#23937942)
> If I'm an educator and I want to select parts of a work to present in class, usually I'd want to view the whole work and select the pieces from that. That's how it'd work when using a traditional library.

> Is this basically what they are suggesting here? They are supplying the copies, and it's up to the users whether or not they break the law from there?

Copyright doesn't work like that - the party who makes the copy is the one who does the infringing.

If you want to use a traditional library analogy, what IA did was basically photocopy a bunch of books and put them on the shelf for patrons to check out.

Re:My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Intern... by hnick on Friday July 24, 2020 @06:47PM (#23945269)
> Copyright doesn't work like that - the party who makes the copy is the one who does the infringing.

Yes I know. It definitely makes sense in most cases. If I'm handing out books in a park then people should be able to assume they aren't breaking the law by taking a copy.

Maybe the law needs an update for this concept of a repository. Where they can keep a catalogue of everything regardless of copyright but the requester bears the clearly marked and advertised burden of satisfying the copyright rules once they ask.

Re:My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Intern... by nordsieck on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:01PM (#23945700)
> Maybe the law needs an update for this concept of a repository. Where they can keep a catalogue of everything regardless of copyright but the requester bears the clearly marked and advertised burden of satisfying the copyright rules once they ask.

I don't understand why this would be a good idea. Perhaps you could elaborate?

We already have libraries that operate just fine under the current set of rules. I think controlled digital lending is probably a good idea and something that should get more legal support, however.

Re:My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Intern... by hnick on Friday July 24, 2020 @08:25PM (#23945860)
> controlled digital lending

That's pretty much what I was suggesting, mentioning copyright rules wrt fair use etc.

Does it make sense that a library has 3 digital copies of a book so that only 2 readers and a single teacher can check it out at once, with other teachers waiting for a spare copy for lesson preparation? Some update or codification based on the status of the borrower might be useful.

I think it makes sense for society to have unlimited copies available for teachers, journalists, etc as necessary to perform their roles. So this would mean some borrowers can borrow regardless of the stock on hand, while others have to wait in line.

The logical extension of this is we could have titles where the library has paid nothing or a nominal bulk fee, meaning regular users cannot check out copies but the above users could.

Re:My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Intern... by zackees on Friday July 24, 2020 @10:14AM (#23939753)
If true, this is just downright evil. Shame on IA.
Re:My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Intern... by chongli on Friday July 24, 2020 @05:34AM (#23937491)
No, the plaintiffs have to show that the IA acted in bad faith. They may be able to show that IA’s actions do not constitute fair use, but to obtain a statutory damage award they need to go much further since the law presumes librarians, teachers, and so on are acting in good faith when they carry out their duties.
Re:My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Intern... by nordsieck on Friday July 24, 2020 @05:50AM (#23937584)
> No, the plaintiffs have to show that the IA acted in bad faith.

"Bad faith" has a specific legal meaning that does not apply here.

In order to obtain statutory damages, they need to show that IA did not have reasonable grounds to believe that unlimited digital lending is fair use.

Re:My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Intern... by extra88 on Thursday July 23, 2020 @11:51PM (#23935518)
IA clearly believed this was fair use and I’m sure can demonstrate reasonable grounds for that belief. Even if the plaintiff’s lawyers can make a stronger argument for it not being fair use (they probably can), that doesn’t negate the existence of IA’s grounds.

Here’s a story about weak but reasonable grounds: Say I think it rained last night because I glanced out the window in the morning and saw the street was wet. You say it didn’t because you got up earlier than me, saw everything was dry, and you saw a street cleaner come through, making the street wet. Clearly you’re right but before I had this information, I had reasonable grounds for my belief.

Re:My thoughts in response to the lawsuit against the Intern... by aspenmayer on Friday July 24, 2020 @04:07AM (#23936958)
This seems prone to a regression fallacy maybe? Of course it rained; I was up before either of them and saw it dry before they had woken. I don’t know if this regression has a name, but it seems familiar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_fallacy