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Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Thursday March 31, 2011 @04:27PM (#2393529)
Microsoft can't complain YouTube is the only game in town - they discontinued their Soap Box thingie. Besides that, YouTube is not the only video hosting provider - There are Vimeo, blib.tv and a host of others. Also, Google scans that books and bears the cost of the scanning. Why would they give this data to Microsoft for free? If Microsoft wants to scan their own books or provide a video hosting platform, they are free to do so, but I don't see why Google has an obligation to provide them these services.
Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by kenjackson on Thursday March 31, 2011 @05:16PM (#2393752)
YouTube is the only game in town for user created videos on the web. What percentage of user created videos do you think YouTube streams? I wouldn't be surprised its in the 80%s or higher.

Which in itself is just fine. But now they're using their monopoly position here to bolster another unrelated product. Once you start doing that you're doing an IE/Windows abuse.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Thursday March 31, 2011 @06:30PM (#2394013)
Good news for you:

http://vimeo.com/upload/video

http://blip.tv/dashboard/upload

You have choice!

edit: and I love how blip.tv gets the podcast RSS thing.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by kenjackson on Thursday March 31, 2011 @08:54PM (#2394462)
I have started suggesting that everyone use Vimeo. I will stay away from YouTube as best I can.

Blip.tv? The site doesn't look so hot.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Friday April 01, 2011 @06:42AM (#2395727)
Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by kenjackson on Friday April 01, 2011 @11:26AM (#2396587)
How would I find those if you didn't link them? Doesn't seem obvious how to find these "channels".
Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Friday April 01, 2011 @01:59PM (#2397257)
I think they are all linked in the corresponding project, event or community sites.

You can also search (this is one I never did before):

http://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+site%3Ablip.tv

which led me to:

http://blip.tv/file/399103 and to its channel.

BTW, there is an http://oscon.blip.tv that promises to consume even more of my free time.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Thursday March 31, 2011 @09:31PM (#2394561)
It's very good. PyCon and Clojure have lots of videos there. I am right now listening to a PyCon 2011 presentation from it.

And they got the podcast thing right.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbarooah on Thursday March 31, 2011 @04:38PM (#2393581)
So it's ok to have Google Search be a monopoly that nobody can compete with because they own the content too?

Personally, I think competition in the search space might lead to better results.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Thursday March 31, 2011 @04:40PM (#2393591)
I have a monopoly on the content I own, much like Microsoft has a monopoly on Hotmail, Windows and Office and Google has a monopoly on the content they created or captured.
Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbarooah on Thursday March 31, 2011 @05:02PM (#2393688)
But do you see how Google buying up significant percentages of web content and only allowing their own search engine to index it properly would make it impossible for other search engines to compete?
Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Thursday March 31, 2011 @06:02PM (#2393906)
I don't see this "buying up significant percentages of web content" thing happening. Is that the books thing where they scanned the books themselves? Is is YouTube, where they offered a good enough video platform? Is AdSense and AdWords, where they made monetizing a website simple and painless?

And Microsoft's Brad Smith saying "It is obviously difficult for competing search engines to gain users when nearly every search box is powered by Google" is beyond hypocritical. He can't possibly be stupid enough to believe that himself.

No. Microsoft is not complaining of unfair practices by Google. It's complaining because now they can't use the same practices they always relied on to squash a competitor that has grown too large for them to feel comfortable.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by kenjackson on Thursday March 31, 2011 @06:20PM (#2393971)
You're saying this is not anti-competitive?

One of the ways that search engines attract users is through distribution of search boxes through Web sites. Unfortunately, Google contractually blocks leading Web sites in Europe from distributing competing search boxes. It is obviously difficult for competing search engines to gain users when nearly every search box is powered by Google. Google's exclusivity terms have even blocked Microsoft from distributing its Windows Live services, such as email and online document storage, through European telecommunications companies because these services are monetized through Bing search boxes.

How is Google contractually blocking other search boxes any different than MS telling Dell that if they ship Linux boxes then they can't ship Windows?

The hypocrisy here is staggering.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Thursday March 31, 2011 @06:37PM (#2394044)
Can't Microsoft make their AdCenter better than the deals those sites have with Google?

I would love to see the real complaint and not just Brad Smith's Technet post.

"It is obviously difficult for competing search engines to gain users when nearly every search box is powered by Google"

I loved that part. People around me in the office wondered why I laughed so loud.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by kenjackson on Thursday March 31, 2011 @06:49PM (#2394091)
Well its hard to get better when you have a monopolist using their monopoly weight to keep customers from using your product or other content that you have a monopoly on.

I find it odd that you're not saying that Google should let there be an open playing field. If a site wants to host both Google and Bing they should be able to.

Of course when it comes to Google they can do no evil -- because they told you so.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Thursday March 31, 2011 @07:51PM (#2394298)
> Well its hard to get better when you have a monopolist using their monopoly weight to keep customers from using your product or other content that you have a monopoly on.

Excuse me but wasn't the default browser and default search engine selection mechanisms something Microsoft was forced to adopt (and dragged its feet for as long as they could to do it, in fact, insulting the EU in the process)? I mean... They were perfectly willing to abuse their desktop OS monopoly to push Google and Mozilla out on a regular basis. Now they are shocked by this "blatant" abuse?

Google should not be able to restrict what site owners do with their search boxes or ad spaces. Google should also not prevent Microsoft from indexing its content but I maintain this is not what's happening.

The only reason Microsoft is complaining is to create a bunch of news headlines with "Google" and "Monopoly" in them. When I open a page in YouTube, there is a lot of data there and Bing would be quite effective if it indexed that. Are they suggesting Google sends different content when the crawl comes from Microsoft servers? Let them show it.

Microsoft is the definitive authority on monopoly abuse, but allow me not to take their word for it without proof.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbarooah on Thursday March 31, 2011 @06:47PM (#2394081)
No, they can't make it better if Google prevents them from indexing significant parts of the web.

The point has been made, several times by more than one person, and yet you ignore it.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Thursday March 31, 2011 @07:42PM (#2394269)
Is YouTube the significant part of the web you are referring to? Are you sure search boxes in sites really require you to find YouTube videos?
Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by kenjackson on Thursday March 31, 2011 @07:48PM (#2394288)
There are multiple distinct issues. But they're all about Google specifically blocking MS to provide competition via their monopoly position.

If Google wants to give up some of their marketshare, I'm sure no one will complain. But when you have monopoly status, you are required to play by different rules. MS knows something about that (for example almost everything MS did in the antitrust case would be legal of a company w/o the market influence they had).

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Thursday March 31, 2011 @08:06PM (#2394338)
It's difficult to see their point (besides making headlines, that is). Are the sites willing to go with Bing search but blocked because they want AdSense ads too? The solution is simple - and easy given Microsoft's huge reserves: make AdCenter pay more than AdSense and make it every bit as easy to set up. Make a solution for advertisers that allows them to "suck the life out" of their AdSense accounts.

Hard to do? Of course it is! Do they want the government to step in to mandate all problems be easy to solve?

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by kenjackson on Thursday March 31, 2011 @08:31PM (#2394402)
Well how about for starters, Google not placing legal restrictions on interoperability.

Google is even restricting its customers’—namely, advertisers’—access to their own data . . . Google contractually prohibits advertisers from using their data in an interoperable way with other search advertising platforms, such as Microsoft’s adCenter http://searchengineland.com/microsoft-comes-out-of-shadows-w...

And here's "Do No Evil" Google's action in the Skyhook case: Skyhook and Google are competitors in the location positioning space. There was a time when Google tried to compete fairly with Skyhook. But once Google realized its positioning technology was not competitive, it chose other means to undermine Skyhook and damage and attempt to destroy its position in the marketplace for location positioning technology. In complete disregard of its common-law and statutory obligations, and in direct opposition to its public messaging encouraging open innovation, Google wielded its control over the Android operating system, as well as other Google mobile applications such as Google Maps, to force device manufacturers to use its technology rather than that of Skyhook, to terminate contractual obligations with Skyhook, and to otherwise force device manufacturers to sacrifice superior end user experience with Skyhook by threatening directly or indirectly to deny timely and equal access to evolving versions of the Android operating system and other Google mobile applications.

I know in your world Google can do no wrong, but trust me, they do.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Thursday March 31, 2011 @10:55PM (#2394744)
Google can do wrong and, if they are doing something wrong, they should be restricted from doing so.

And so should Microsoft. If these claims end up being frivolous and this whole thing just a stunt to produce lots of headlines with "Google", "Monopoly" and "Antitrust" in them, Microsoft should also be on the receiving end of a probe about anti-competitive practices.

Hopefully, one that can do what the previous ones couldn't.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbarooah on Thursday March 31, 2011 @06:09PM (#2393935)
You don't think YouTube contains a large percentage of web video, or you don't think Google bought YouTube?
Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Thursday March 31, 2011 @06:13PM (#2393949)
Oh... But they don't own the content there - whoever put it there is free to port it to, say, Soapbox. Or Vimeo, or blip.tv or justin.tv or even S3. And even delete the instances in YouTube, leaving Google with nothing.

The only problem with that is that Soapbox no longer exists. Because Microsoft didn't want to spend any more money on it.

Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbarooah on Thursday March 31, 2011 @06:21PM (#2393979)
What incentive would there be for everyone to remove their content from YouTube?
Re:Microsoft files monopoly complaint against Google by rbanffy on Thursday March 31, 2011 @06:41PM (#2394057)
None. Does Google need to provide one too?

But Microsoft, since it's so offended by what Google is doing, could resurrect Soapbox. They should have plenty of cash coming from those Android patents, BTW. They could also have bought YouTube (Google had their own Google Video, but that was going nowhere and credit goes to them for seeing YouTube first).