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Re:Brain connectivity levels are equal in all mammals, inclu... by tbenst on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @11:25AM (#23918003)
This is outrageously misleading. To make a claim about the number of synapses between neurons based on MRI data is completely unwarranted. Voxel size (single volumetric pixel) in MRI is approximately 1mm, while synapse size is way less than a micron. You need resolution per pixel on the order of 10s of nanometers to identify synapses.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a dead salmon also has “equal” connectivity: https://www.wired.com/2009/09/fmrisalmon/

Re:Brain connectivity levels are equal in all mammals, inclu... by egocodedinsol on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @12:31PM (#23918752)
Surely there's something to learn here though. I haven't read the original paper but a quantity that's preserved across brain scales is either an artifact or a neat insight.

Your criticism reads like someone accusing economists of being outrageously misleading when they don't sample individual households but measure macro indicators. It's like saying Ramon y cajal was ridiculous because he couldn't image the neuropil effectively. Or like saying early optogenetics experiments were ridiculous because who knows if you're stimulating a neuron in a realistic manner?

And in any case, it's true that synapses are comically small relative to voxel size, but we also have some reasonable information about projection patterns and synapse number from various tracer or rabies studies with which you are no doubt familiar.

I haven't read the nature paper the press release is about and I'm not a huge fan of many d/fMRI practices or derived claims. And I've worked with enough mammalian dwi data to be skeptical of specific connection claims. But this strikes me as a rather interesting result even if you can't measure all the synapses at the right resolution: either the tractography method has connectivity conservation artifacts baked in, or there's something interesting going on.

Re:Brain connectivity levels are equal in all mammals, inclu... by tbenst on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @05:32PM (#23921844)
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I’m highly concerned that there are artifacts baked in. I’ll readily admit that I’m a systems neuroscientist and am skeptical of DWI in general. I appreciate that they included Supp. Fig 13, with a comparison of DWI findings to cellular-level resolution projectome tracing from Allen Institute. Supp Fig 13 does not inspire confidence.
Re:Brain connectivity levels are equal in all mammals, inclu... by westurner on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @02:23PM (#23920013)
"fNIRS Compared with other neuroimaging techniques" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_near-infrared_spect...

> When comparing and contrasting these devices it is important to look at the temporal resolution, spatial resolution, and the degree of immobility.

Re:Brain connectivity levels are equal in all mammals, inclu... by egocodedinsol on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @03:44PM (#23920791)
I think I missed your overall point?
Re:Brain connectivity levels are equal in all mammals, inclu... by westurner on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @04:56PM (#23921481)
OP suggests that the spatial resolution of existing MRI neuroimaging capabilities is insufficient to observe or so characterize or so generalize about neuronal activity in mammalian species. fNIRS (functional near-infrared spectroscopy) is one alternative neuroimaging capability that we could compare fMRI with according to the criteria for comparison suggested in the cited Wikipedia article: "temporal resolution, spatial resolution, and the degree of immobility".
Re:Brain connectivity levels are equal in all mammals, inclu... by nabla9 on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @12:07PM (#23918479)
They study macro-scale connectomes.
Re:Brain connectivity levels are equal in all mammals, inclu... by mmastrac on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @12:30PM (#23918746)
Would it be fair to say that the conclusions were that "large scale processing blocks have similar connection complexity across mammals, regardless of brain size?" -- obviously including that the complexity and/or function of the regions may be wildly different.
Re:Brain connectivity levels are equal in all mammals, inclu... by tbenst on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @05:36PM (#23921880)
Yes, their statements should be about “large scale processing blocks,“ to make claims to the public about the number of synapses between neurons being conserved is really unfortunate and cannot be assessed in their data
Re:Brain connectivity levels are equal in all mammals, inclu... by leemailll on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @11:37AM (#23918142)
And when you put the brain size into consideration, the results for some mammals might not too far a way from a fuzzy mosaic while human’s like a 10 k pixels image
Re:Brain connectivity levels are equal in all mammals, inclu... by gspr on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @12:55PM (#23918988)
Re:Brain connectivity levels are equal in all mammals, inclu... by tbenst on Wednesday July 22, 2020 @05:39PM (#23921907)
“In other words, information travels from one location to another through the same number of synapses.” —-Yaniv Assaf

This statement is outrageous, and an example of how some scientists gain the ire of their colleagues by exaggerating their findings and misleading the press.