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Re:Ford’s electric car engineers go crazy with 1,400hp Musta... by bob1029 on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @02:04PM (#23909211)
My next hobby car is going to be something purely mechanical. New cars are virtually impossible to work on and have mountains of compromises to deal with.

I am not enjoying having a computer constantly between me and the road. I also don't like the new lower bound for car weight due to all of the modern safety regulations. Even if you have a modern car with a ton of power, you can never truly compensate for the physics equation imposed by all of that weight.

For example: A 1988 Honda Civic weighs somewhere in the realm of 2000-2200 lbs. A 2020 model year weighs somewhere between 2700-3000 lbs. This makes a huge difference in how a car feels to drive, especially at extremes that are more likely to be explored by enthusiasts.

Something like a BMW M3 E30 would be a dream hobby car for me. There is a reason the 80s-90s model years are starting to go up in value. Car enthusiasts want that sweet spot of purely analog controls, but also with working factory A/C.

Re:Ford’s electric car engineers go crazy with 1,400hp Musta... by mywittyname on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @02:28PM (#23909432)
> due to all of the modern safety regulations.

People love to say this is due to regulation, but it really isn't. Safety regulations in the USA for automobiles are not terribly strict. It adds weight, for sure, but you can buy a 2100lb Mitsubishi Mirage with a stick shift. So mandatory safety aren't the biggest contributor to inflated curb weights.

Size inflation is predominantly driven by NVH and interior volume requirements from consumers. Dodge doesn't have to make the Challenger Hellcat a 4500lb two-door car. This car isn't fat for safety reasons, in fact, it score pretty damn low on safety tests.

Manufacture make heavy cars it because customers want gigantic, comfortable cruisers, with big engines, all-wheel job, 20" wheels on 265mm-wide tires, heavy duty lifted suspension, and full-length under-body trays.

Honda isn't immune to this, they don't even sell a car today that's as small in volume as your 88 Civic. The closest would be the discontinued CR-Z, which was a hyrbrid, or the no-long-sold-in-the-US Jazz/Fit, which is still quite a bit larger but only 2600lbs with a stickshift.

I love old Hondas, and you're right, they have a driving sensation that's impossible to get with modern cars. But don't blame regulations for Honda changing their ways, blame consumers. If people wanted a Civic with a 90hp engine, stick shift, four-wheel double-wishbone suspension, and 13" wheels, they'd sell one. Mitsu still does (for now).

Re:Ford’s electric car engineers go crazy with 1,400hp Musta... by throwaway0a5e on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @02:35PM (#23909501)
>There is a reason the 80s-90s model years are starting to go up in value. Car enthusiasts want that sweet spot of purely analog controls, but also with working factory A/C.

People have said this exact thing for decades. It's because people old enough to remember being carted around in those cars as kids are finally getting old enough to be settled down and wealthy enough to have project cars. It has nothing to do with the vehicles themselves.

Within any given decade the things the rich kids got carted around in (or their dad commuted in) always command a premium.

Re:Ford’s electric car engineers go crazy with 1,400hp Musta... by organsnyder on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @02:19PM (#23909339)
It seems like that should be easier with an electric drivetrain. Much of the complexity of modern vehicles is the controls for the fuel injection, transmission, timing, and the like. An electric motor—perhaps even without a transmission—is a hell of a lot simpler.
Re:Ford’s electric car engineers go crazy with 1,400hp Musta... by lisper on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @02:25PM (#23909404)
Simpler yes, but potentially more dangerous. It's easy to lose sight of the fact that electricity can kill you awfully damn fast and without any warning. This is usually not a problem for hobbyists because the total amount of energy in a typical battery is low and the internal resistances are high. But when you're powering a vehicle, especially a high-performance vehicle, those usual safeguards are intentionally removed. So caveat hacker. Caveat mucho.

Also, LiPo batteries can explode if you're not very careful with charge and discharge discipline. Even the small ones in cell phones can do significant damage that way.

Re:Ford’s electric car engineers go crazy with 1,400hp Musta... by ideals on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @02:34PM (#23909489)
Hopefully we will get to a point where we have an LSx of electrical drivetrain. Something that is cheap, powerful, ubiquitous, and easy to install.

Right now though we have some disappointing (from a power perspective) electric drivetrains from Prius' that can be swapped or a powerful but DRM'd Tesla drivetrain that is more work than it's worth.

Re:Ford’s electric car engineers go crazy with 1,400hp Musta... by throwaway0a5e on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @02:38PM (#23909523)
Well until someone builds millions of pickups and vans with the same EV drivetrain we're not gonna have an LS of EVs. The reason people like the LS is because it's everywhere and cheap. Everything else follows that.
Re:Ford’s electric car engineers go crazy with 1,400hp Musta... by kllrnohj on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @03:16PM (#23909939)
> My next hobby car is going to be something purely mechanical. [..] For example: A 1988 Honda Civic

A 1988 Honda Civic isn't purely mechanical. It still has an ECU, for example. It still relies on electrical sensors for basic operation.

> Car enthusiasts want that sweet spot of purely analog controls, but also with working factory A/C.

There's no shortage of new cars that still offer that, too, or recently used. You don't have to go back to the late-80s to get that. It seems to be mechanical steering combined with low curb weight that you're actually focusing on, which is still a market segment receiving new models. You've basically described every Porsche up until the 2012 model year, for example (when they first introduced electronic steering). Or the entire Lotus brand. Or specialty cars like the Alfa Romeo 4c, Toyota/Subaru FRS/GT86/BRZ, etc...

And, of course, you can't forget the king of sports cars - the Mazda Miata. 30 years later & it's still just as light as it's always been. And just as good.

> Something like a BMW M3 E30 would be a dream hobby car for me.

There's so much more to a car than spec sheets, and you should absolutely chase your dreams, but realize you can also basically buy a brand new M3 E30 today. The power, weight, size, etc... of the E30 is withing spitting distance of the GT86.

Both are front-engine rear-wheel drive. Both have manual transmissions (although a 6-speed in the GT86 vs. the 5-speed in the E30). Both have a ~2700lb curb weight. Both have a 101 in wheelbase. The 86 is a bit shorter length, bit shorter height, and a bit larger width, but all within a few inches. Both have a 4-cylinder engine at around 200hp, and both rev to about 7000 rpm. Both have responsive, playful suspensions, and direct steering feedback.

Regulations definitely didn't kill anything here as the same core specs still exist.

Re:Ford’s electric car engineers go crazy with 1,400hp Musta... by dano on Tuesday July 21, 2020 @03:37PM (#23910136)
Heh, yes, Miata is always the answer. 1992 in my stable.