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Re:Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at... by LanceH on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:33PM (#23874513)
Trump did not lose the popular vote. There is no contest for the popular vote. Perhaps one party should try moving a bit to campaign according to the actual contest at hand, rather than try to rewrite the rules.

You assume the Democrats would win a popular vote easily. First, Republicans would actually campaign in California for a change. They might even move left a tad on some issues. Democrats might decide it's the time to go batshit insane and go further left, leaving an even wider, disenfranchised center than we have now.

Re:Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at... by joshstrange on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:43PM (#23874636)
> Trump did not lose the popular vote.

Dear god, do facts not matter at all? He absolutely lost the popular vote. He won the election through the electoral college. It's the system we have and it's what determines the election but to say he didn't lost the popular vote is false and revisionist.

Re:Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at... by AnimalMuppet on Friday July 17, 2020 @04:31PM (#23875161)
I believe that you are missing LanceH's point. I'll try to put it in different terms.

Here's a football game. Team A scores 17 points on 284 yards of offense. Team B scores 10 points but has 317 yards of offense. Team B's fans say "We won on total offense!" That's great, Team B fans. Here, have a lollipop.

Why am I being so condescending? Because no football game is decided based on total offense. They're decide on points. Team B "won" something that is a statistical category, not a game.

In the same way, Hillary won a statistic, not an election. So all this "Trump lost the popular vote" is... yeah, so what? Winning the popular vote plus six bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks. And Democrats knew what the rules were going into the election, and have known ever since. Who cares about the popular vote? It's totally irrelevant. They. Lost. The. Election.

Re:Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at... by gruez on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:54PM (#23874758)
>Trump did not lose the popular vote.

I seriously hope you're baiting and don't actually believe that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidentia...

    Nominee  Donald Trump  Hillary Clinton  
    [...]
    Popular vote  62,984,828  65,853,514
secondary source: https://www.fec.gov/resources/cms-content/documents/federale...
Re:Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at... by Zpalmtree on Friday July 17, 2020 @04:20PM (#23875046)
I think you misinterpreted what he was suggesting - it is meaningless to say that Hillary won the popular vote because neither party were trying to win the popular vote - you win the presidency by winning the electoral college.

If instead the president was chosen by popular vote, both parties likely would have campaigned differently.

Re:Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at... by gruez on Friday July 17, 2020 @05:39PM (#23876137)
>I think you misinterpreted what he was suggesting - it is meaningless to say that Hillary won the popular vote because neither party were trying to win the popular vote - you win the presidency by winning the electoral college.

This is a non-sequitur. Whether or not that metric (popular vote) has a bearing on the results of presidential election is irrelevant to the statement of whether he won in that metric.

Furthermore, it's counter-productive to the discussion to preface a comment with a politically charged comment (trump and some of his supporters legitimately believes he got more popular vote than clinton, despite evidence to the contrary), then backpedal on that statement by adding a bunch of qualifiers.

Re:Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at... by LanceH on Friday July 17, 2020 @08:40PM (#23877822)
You don't win a metric.
Re:Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at... by gruez on Friday July 17, 2020 @09:09PM (#23878000)
Maybe with a definition that you can only "win" a competition that was agreed upon ahead of time. However, a quick search on hn shows that "win" colloquially also can mean beating everyone else at some metric (or in some cases, on a subjective basis). eg.

"Chrome won" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14420972, despite the lack of an actual competition for internet browser market share

"Linux and open source have won, get over it" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23673867

"Teenage Engineering has won over kids and professionals with a synthesizer" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20527069

Re:Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at... by pantaloony on Friday July 17, 2020 @04:24PM (#23875091)
They key part seems to be:

> There is no contest for the popular vote.

And that since the rules weren’t “whoever wins the national popular vote is president” we can’t know how campaigns and voters would have behaved under that rule set, making appeals to the “popular vote” meaningless. A position which I actually agree with, despite very much not liking the last couple R presidents who won despite “losing” the (meaningless, and not a useful measure of much given the above) popular vote.

It’s fun to complain about when your (our, perhaps) person loses but is about as meaningful as “our team should have won because we had more men-on-base”. Well, OK, but baseball is played to optimize for runs because that’s how you win, so no, you shouldn’t have won, and also if the other team had been optimizing for men-on-base you may still have lost—we simply can’t know.