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Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by st3fan on Monday July 07, 2008 @11:18AM (#238683)
Personally I think smoking is disgusting and smoking pot is dumb. Thinking that smoking pot is good for you is even dumber.

Health Issues of Marijuana - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana#Health_issues

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by palish on Monday July 07, 2008 @01:18PM (#238833)
Chewing tobacco is also disgusting and possibly dumb (because it causes mouth cancer), but it is not illegal. Pot is though. That's my problem with the anti-drug tirade: Nicotine is a drug and is not illegal, but THC is also a drug and is illegal.

(I should probably note that I've never smoked pot.)

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by astine on Monday July 07, 2008 @02:00PM (#238896)
Tobacco is a local industry. Marijuana is not.

The US was built with the money from Tobacco, not Marijuana.

So we can't criminalize Tobacco any more than Columbia can do away with cocaine or Afghanistan can out opium. Personally, I think that marijuana use is probably harmful, as is most drug use, but isn't worth the cost in criminalizing it.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by evgen on Monday July 07, 2008 @02:37PM (#238984)
> Tobacco is a local industry. Marijuana is not.

You are kidding, right? Marijuana cultivation is one of the largest cash crops in the US (there is some question as to whether or not it is the largest, but there is no disputing the fact that it is in the top five.)

> The US was built with the money from Tobacco, not Marijuana.

The US was built with money from tobacco, sugar, and slavery. Not really a great mix for us to be crowing about. BTW, when you see period documents that talk about "hemp" and how all colonial settlers should be encouraged to grow this valuable crop you are reading an exhortation from the government to grow marijuana (we don't grow the same varietals now, but it is the same plant...)

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by astine on Monday July 07, 2008 @02:56PM (#239021)
Marijuana cultivation is one of the largest cash crops in the US

Maybe, but are Marijuana growers as dependent on their crop as Tobacco growers? Do they have as powerful a lobby? Are they as heavily taxed?

I've read that period documentation. "Hemp" is not marijuana as we know it today and it was grown for rope, not as a drug. It never did catch on though, the climate wasn't very good for it.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by pmorici on Monday July 07, 2008 @07:43PM (#239333)
"when you see period documents that talk about "hemp""

Good point I read some place that the reason people originally wanted to out law marijuana was in order to make it illegal to grow hemp which was competing with their cotton crop. So really this all just started out as a government enforced monopoly to please some corporate fat cats.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by evgen on Tuesday July 08, 2008 @12:03PM (#239980)
While that theory has some support, I would also suggest that you not discount the synergistic effect of the popular association between marijuana and that "scary" jazz/beatnik scene which probably seemed quite threatening to the dominant culture of the time.
Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by jonknee on Monday July 07, 2008 @02:29PM (#238967)
By some estimates, marijuana is the largest cash crop in the US. It's very much a local industry. (You probably don't have people in your neighborhood growing tobacco, but you almost certainly have people growing marijuana.)

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=2735017&page=1

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by astine on Monday July 07, 2008 @02:44PM (#238994)
Perhaps I should clarify then? Tobacco farmers goes back generations and make up a significant part of the traditional economy. They are taxed heavily and contribute a lot to the local and national economies. In general, marijuana farming goes back about generation, is not taxed (for obvious reasons) and very few people who grow marijuana really on it for there sole income. Enough of it is imported so that it is not really seen as 'American.' Maybe I'm biased, being from Virginia and having friends and associated who are small time tobacco farmers (and are nothing like the faceless monsters you see on anti-smoking adds,) But the relationship of tobacco to the economy, and the relation of marijuana to the economy are different, both in function and in perception (which is what really matters.)

BTW, your link is fixed. ------------------------

Edit: That article emphasized my point.

Which isn't that one is good or the other is bad, but the relationship of either to our economy is different. While production of marijuana is increasing, most of it is controlled and distributed by groups that are considered foreign, like the Mexican mob for example. In fact, a great deal of it is grown by recent immigrants whose families are being held hostage in their home countries.

Needless to say this could change in light of legalization, but it's current stature is what plays a key role right now. As it stands, the people who get rich off of marijuana aren't Americans.

So while legalization of Marijuana may benefit society monetarily, there is no particular interest group that stands to get rich or on which the government already depends. This was even more true at the time of the original criminalization. It's a matter of why, not whether. I've stated elsewhere that I believe marijuana ought to be legal and I'm stating here why it isn't and tobacco is.

I mentioned small tobacco farmers for a different reason. Taxes, restrictions and lawsuits against tobacco increase everyday and everyday small tobacco farmers loose ground to larger tobacco firms which can deal more efficiently with the restrictions. As the restrictions increase, small tobacco will go out of business and if criminalize, the larger firms will give way to cartels every bit as troublesome as the Mexican mob. Legalize either and their's no guarantee that either will come back as a wholesome industry. (Given prohibition, it seems likely, but isn't a given.)

So those that oppose one and support the other aren't necessarily hypocrites so much as tunnel visioned. Which is all I really have to say.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by jonknee on Monday July 07, 2008 @03:10PM (#239047)
Fixed the link.

Marijuana has a long history too. If it were legalized, the industry would be taxed just like tobacco. If tobacco was outlawed there would be underground tobacco farmers just like we have today with weed.

It's silly to say tobacco is good because the farmers are good people who had parents who did the same thing. Their crop kills thousands of people. Weed kills no one. I'm for legalization of both, but by the numbers tobacco is the one we should be worried about.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by astine on Monday July 07, 2008 @03:32PM (#239079)
It's silly to say tobacco is good because the farmers are good people who had parents who did the same thing.

That's good, because I didn't say that. I said that it's legal because tobacco farmers are a more established part of the economy; that it's legal for historical reasons.

Marijuana has a long history too. If it were legalized, the industry would be taxed just like tobacco.

If Marijuana were allowed to establish itself as an open industry, sure. But it hasn't, or rather, it hadn't at the time of the first drug laws against it. Which is the whole point. I don't know why you're having trouble with this.

Their crop kills thousands of people. Weed kills no one.

BS, smoking weed has the exact same effects on your health as smoking tobacco and plenty of people have died smoking weed.In terms of danger they are around the same. The difference in numbers has more to do with relative popularity and the openness people have with their habits.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by palish on Monday July 07, 2008 @02:35PM (#238979)
That's correct, but we are now in a hypocritical situation. We can't say "history made Nicotine legal, but let's pretend that THC is illegal for good reasons". Yes, there may be good reasons for an individual to not smoke pot, but that doesn't mean there are good reasons for keeping it illegal.
Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by astine on Monday July 07, 2008 @02:47PM (#238998)
We can't say "history made Nicotine legal, but let's pretend that THC is illegal for good reasons"

Good, because I didn't say that.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by palish on Monday July 07, 2008 @02:54PM (#239016)
Well, you said that Tobacco is legal due to historical reasons (which implies that it's legal for bad reasons), so I assumed you were implying that THC is illegal for good reasons. I apologize.