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Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by pjc50 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:21PM (#23862769)
I may regret this, but if I want a zero maintenance kitchen knife, what should I get?

(No "EDC" in the UK, of course)

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by AmericanChopper on Thursday July 16, 2020 @05:29PM (#23864028)
There’s no such thing as a zero maintenance knife. Stainless steel knifes are lower maintenance than higher carbon steel ones. Zwilling, Wustof, Victorinox and Global all make good quality “affordable” stainless knifes.

But if you want it to last and keep a sharp edge, the only way you can do that is by sharpening them every so often. Even once a month on a ~400 grit stone will keep them in pretty good condition.

People are suggesting ceramic, but seriously don’t bother. They dull and chip, and you can NEVER sharpen them. A ceramic knife has a short life span, after which there is literally nothing you can do to bring back it’s cutting edge.

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by xxs on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:32AM (#23868118)
>They dull and chip, and you can NEVER sharpen them.

You can (not that you should) on 15000+ diamond stones. (edit missed '1' in front of the 5)

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by mod on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:55PM (#23863162)
Victorinox chef knife is a good choice, and not expensive.

You'll still have to sharpen it, but not often. It won't rust etc.

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by henrikschroder on Thursday July 16, 2020 @05:33PM (#23864061)
+1 for the Victorinox fibrox series. They're not pretty, they're not designed, they're not cool, they're not the sharpest, and they're not cheap.

But they're certainly not expensive, and they're just 100% utilitarian. Ergonomic, sharp, easy to sharpen, and you can throw them in the dishwasher no problem.

If you want to optimize for value-for-money and ease-of-maintenance, these are it.

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by ReptileMan on Thursday July 16, 2020 @10:56PM (#23866517)
Victorinox can take very nice edge. If you are good on the stones. The steel doesn't feel gummy at all.
Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by balls187 on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:34PM (#23862936)
All kitchen knives worth anything require maintenance.

Really good knives (i.e. usually made with good steel) will hold an edge, and require less sharpening before each use.

Instead you can just hit them weekly or so with a sharpening ceramic.

Cheaper knives need constant sharpening, and or don't hold an edge for anything, and require you to do all the work.

Regardless, always wash and dry your knives by hand, and always cut on a cutting board.

Me personally, I love Shun knives. Not cheap, but the time and effort saved when cooking make it worth the investment.

My first shun is over 10 years old, and I have never sharpened it with a stone, just a sharpening ceramic.

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by sampo on Thursday July 16, 2020 @09:27PM (#23865994)
> zero maintenance kitchen knife

First, use a wooden cutting board. Or soft plastic.

Ceramic knives (Kyocera) are harder and more wear resistant than any steel can be, but they're also brittle. The edge can chip if you hit anything hard. You can't cut bones or crusty bread. Don't hit it against any hard object by accident. Don't twist or bend. You could get several years of use out of it, but when it wears out and gets dull, you'd need diamond files to sharpen it.

European chef knives are softer steel (56 to 58 hardness in Rockwell scale), but they are not brittle. Wusthof is a premium brand. The Victorinox Fibrox is very good value at about $40. The steel will bend and give in, but not chip. If you use a honing rod weekly and sharpen every couple of months, you can always have a nice sharp knife. A single 1000 grit sharpening stone like Shapton should suffice, but not everyone wants to learn hand sharpening. You can also use a pull-through sharpener, some are ok but some are just bad. A skilled hand sharpening will produce a finer edge, though.

Then there is a whole world of Japanese chef knives, called gyutos. Rockwell hardness is usually from 61 to 64. They are thinner, lighter, nimbler and sharper than Western style knives, but the steel is so hard that it can be brittle. Hard steel can be sharpened to a small angle to get a very sharp knife, but if you hit a hard object the edge will chip. Slicing vegetables is just a breeze. Honing rod might also damage the edge, unless you apply very light touch. Pull-through sharpeners might destroy the edge. Some "super steels" are very wear resistant so they stay sharp for months, but wear resistance also makes it more laborious to sharpen them.

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by xxs on Friday July 17, 2020 @03:14AM (#23868011)
>A single 1000 grit sharpening stone like Shapton should suffice, but not everyone wants to learn hand sharpening

I recommend learning whetstone sharpening to anyone. It's therapeutic. Also I guess learning on a water-soaked stone is actually easier (they are cheaper too).

Any tool needs some maintenance and care, knives don't really make an exception. Other than that - ceramic knives would be the no-maintenance ones - if you chip it, buy another.

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by Marsymars on Friday July 17, 2020 @02:23AM (#23867702)
> First, use a wooden cutting board. Or soft plastic.

Or rubber!

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by abawany on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:34PM (#23862932)
I am no knife nerd and it is heresy to bring it up in this thread but I am a big believer in ceramic knives. They cut clean, maintain an edge with no fuss, and just work. I recommend ones from Kyocera (made in Japan) since those have worked well for me. Also somewhat related, my peppermill is a Kyocera ceramic as well - works awesome compared to some of the others I've tried.
Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by evilduck on Thursday July 16, 2020 @04:40PM (#23863583)
Ceramics are neat but they chip easily are aren't readily sharpened or repaired at home (or even by most professional sharpeners).

I think most people would be better off with a $40 Victorinox Fibrox.

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by abawany on Thursday July 16, 2020 @05:41PM (#23864138)
I will concede that cheaper ceramic knives may chip easily but I have been using my set for about 6 years without any issues. The very first cheap ceramic knife I got chipped because I inadvertently dropped it from counter height on a tile floor. My stainless steel knives now just sit idle in drawers and I don't miss them one bit - haven't used one in years.
Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by dangerscouse on Thursday July 16, 2020 @03:47PM (#23863082)
Snap, got 3 Kyocera. Had them for years, never had them sharpened (though I'm told I can post them to do this) but hands down the best knives I've ever owned.
Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by giardini on Friday July 17, 2020 @01:19AM (#23867304)
My favorite kitchen knife is an old steel knife with a handle ~4 1/2" long, blade ~8" long and width of ~1". I keep it clean and oiled and sharpen it occasionally with one of those crappy cheap kitchen knife-sharpeners you get in any grocery store. I oil it with olive oil (soak the handle too) and dry it out in a warm spot once a year too. It gets better with age.

I was lucky: one day at the convenience store I walked into the (tiny) restroom as a homeless guy was stashing his knife collection up in the attic space (he had failed to lock the door). I excused myself and backed out but notified the manager. We retrieved the knife set, which proved to be a collection of professional Japanese restaurant kitchen knives (very high end and nice) and various other sundry knives. I picked out the knife I describe above (it was one of the "other sundry") and said I wanted it; the manager gladly let me take it. The rest went into the trash. I've had that knife for years now and its the most useful of all my kitchen knives.

Lessons learned:

- don't mess with the homeless guy!

- How well a knife works doesn't depend on looks.

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by samatman on Thursday July 16, 2020 @11:18PM (#23866619)
Strong recommendation: you will be happier with a Japanese style chef's knife/gyuto than with a Western one. The blade is thinner, as is the edge geometry. This is if and only if you can treat the edge properly; the thicker steel and wider edge of a Wusthof may be more your style, otherwise.

Properly means cutting on surfaces designed for cutting, cleaning it, honing it, and storing it in a way that protects the edge.

Fujiwara Kanefusa makes a few which are reasonably priced and all you'll ever need. I got mine on vacation in Kappabashi in Tokyo, a trip I get to remember fondly every time I'm in the kitchen, but it's not really a product category where you get much more by paying a lot more.

Note: there's no such thing as a zero maintenance kitchen knife. Any knife you use will need sharpening about yearly. There's also someone in your town who will do it for ten quid; no reason at all to learn how unless you want another hobby.

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by sixstringtheory on Thursday July 16, 2020 @05:47PM (#23864184)
I have a set of Shun Classics that I hone maybe once every two weeks. They are still incredibly sharp after 8 years of daily, extensive use and I’ve only sharpened them three times on my whetstone. I will only break out the stone if I can see missing chunks in the blade edge; this is the goal of sharpening: to remove the blade material around a divot to create a new, continuous blade edge.

Also, make sure to use a honing steel. If you “hone” on one of those ceramic sharpening rods, you will reduce the life span of your knife. Ceramic removes blade material, steel simply realigns it. The edge of the blade will curl over with use, honing straightens it back up, no need to remove material!

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by gjkood on Thursday July 16, 2020 @04:08PM (#23863297)
Bought one of those Wusthof Classic Block Set with a few knives in it more than 20 years ago. The blades still look like new, the handles have some scratch marks. Use them every week multiple times.

Only care provided was to hand wash them, dry them and put them back in the block. Very rarely attempted sharpening but frequently honed with a steel whenever I felt any dullness while cutting.

Thats about the lowest maintenance I can think of.

Buy decent knives, take care of them and they will last a lifetime and maybe multiple generations.

Re:Who is the greatest knife steel metallurgist of all time? by clairity on Thursday July 16, 2020 @04:54PM (#23863700)
similarly bought a set of henckels classics and they're holding up fine, except for one, where a bit of the plastic handle has broken off (apparently i can send it in to get it fixed, but haven't done so).

i'm lazy so i have to hone/sharpen the knives more often than i like (every few weeks vs. never), but they've overall provided great bang-for-buck!