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Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by Alex3917 on Monday July 07, 2008 @10:10AM (#238582)
"For that matter, it ain't alcohol, which is far worse for one's body and mind."

Except for that not only is moderate consumption of alcohol good for you, but teetotalism is as bad for your health as being morbidly obese. How is it possible for someone to get a Ph.D. without picking up even a trace of scientific literacy?

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by ckuehne on Monday July 07, 2008 @10:19AM (#238591)
"How is it possible for someone to get a Ph.D. without picking up even a trace of scientific literacy?"

One word: humanities.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by hugh on Monday July 07, 2008 @11:24AM (#238692)
teetotalism is as bad for your health as being morbidly obese

That just sounds really unlikely. Got anything to back that up?

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by Alex3917 on Monday July 07, 2008 @12:50PM (#238796)
"In a study of more than 80,000 American women, those who drank moderately had only half the heart attack risk of those who did not drink at all, even if they were slim, did not smoke and exercised daily. Moderate drinking was about as good for the heart as an hour of exercise a day. Not drinking at all was as bad for the heart as morbid obesity."

The overall risk curve for alcohol is J shaped. In other words, your total morbidity risk decreases sharply with moderate consumption but then increases after about two drinks a day. Interestingly, risk of heart disease is lower even among the heaviest drinkers. However, total morbidity rates are higher because of other risks.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by hugh on Monday July 07, 2008 @02:02PM (#238901)
I actually meant the original article, not a quote from some New York Times summary. I wanted to know whether the study corrected for things like people who are teetotal only due to some other medical condition.

I'm prepared to believe that there's health benefits to a small amount of alcohol every day, but I really can't imagine it being anything on the scale of the health benefits of not-being-morbidly-obese. Morbid obesity is a huge risk factor for just about everything.

You see plenty of 90-year-old teetotallers, but not many morbidly obese folks past their fifties.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by Alex3917 on Monday July 07, 2008 @02:11PM (#238918)
"You see plenty of 90-year-old teetotallers, but not many morbidly obese folks past their fifties."

That's true, but then again people also naturally lose weight as they got older. Lower testosterone causes muscles to atrophy, and reduced sense of smell leads to a loss of appetite. I'm not sure how many morbidly obese people live long enough to get to this point, but it's at least worth considering.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by oz on Monday July 07, 2008 @01:27PM (#238846)
Yes, IIRC, there is a phenomenon called the "French Paradox," i.e., the French consume a lot of fatty foods (gourmet culture), yet have relatively low incidence of heart disease. It was found that that their high wine consumption kept their arteries clean.

As the Bible says, "A little wine for the stomach's sake" and "brandy to give you cheer."

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by josefresco on Monday July 07, 2008 @10:20AM (#238592)
What about for alcoholics? If refraining from something completely is bad, should we all experience LSD/Cocaine/Heroine infrequently?

I would think the real damage of teetotalism would be the stress involved in constantly thinking about and addressing it. Not so much the lack of the substance in the body.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by silentbicycle on Monday July 07, 2008 @04:48PM (#239170)
If you define alcoholics as the set of people who, for whatever reason* , tend to drink to excess, that is, who as a rule do not drink moderately, then these health benefits are irrelevant to them. For example, if they try to drink moderately, but only succeed half the time and otherwise seriously overdo it, then the net effect on health is likely to be very negative.

* The debate whether alcoholism is a disease, a personality trait, or something else entirely is irrelevant here.

The health benefits of alcohol are an unusual case, also -- many of its benefits are related to other chemicals that frequently accompany it, such as polyphenols in red wine. This does not apply to "LSD/Cocaine/Heroine" (sic), though there are comparable benefits for coffee and tea (particularly green tea), mostly antioxidants.

Many doctors are reluctant to recommend moderate drinking for its health benefits because it is also addictive and impairs judgment, and in cases where people drink excessively, the health costs are severe. This doesn't apply to most things recommended for health (exercise, eating fruits and vegetables, getting enough sleep, nethack, green tea, pomegranate juice (or whatever the health craze of the moment is, ac,ai berries? peach fuzz?)), because most of those are less likely to be taken to excess, and would probably be several orders of magnitude less harmful even if they were.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by Alex3917 on Monday July 07, 2008 @10:24AM (#238600)
"I would think the real damage of teetotalism would be the stress involved in constantly thinking about and addressing it."

Then you would be wrong: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E05EED9143FF...

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by LogicHoleFlaw on Monday July 07, 2008 @10:55AM (#238644)
This article shows benefits from moderate drinking for individuals at high risk of heart disease, not the population at large:

For many people moderate drinking has absolutely no benefit at all, Dr. Klatsky said. This applies to all adolescents: teenagers have a negligible risk of heart disease and for them the risks of heavy drinking vastly outweigh any benefits of moderate drinking.

The same generally applies to men under 40 and women under 50, except for those with known heart disease risks. Pregnant women, people with liver disease, known drinking problems or a family history of alcoholism should never be advised to begin to drink for their health, he said.

But for others with known coronary heart disease or a risk of heart disease because of obesity, cholesterol levels, or smoking, moderate alcohol use may be a way to reduce that risk.

It is important to look at context when reading about these sorts of studies.

Re:Pothead Ph.D. - This is most definitely not a cautionary ... by josefresco on Monday July 07, 2008 @10:49AM (#238635)
The large population studies this article cites aren't exactly convincing. Anyone can perform similar studies showing other correlations. The "feeding studies" are more important to scientific understanding. Also, I would think an individuals personal health profile would outweigh blanket advice like "drink moderately".