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Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by baybal2 on Friday July 10, 2020 @08:22AM (#23790760)
> Ok, fine, crazy thought. But it raises the question, why aren't any of our other leaders even pretending to try and be that person?

Don't you think that's a very easy question to answer?

A ton of money, an amount of money serious enough even for America to be made concerned.

Pretty much everybody with stock market exposure, including pretty much anybody in USA who counts as an elite, will loose big time if one day Beijing presses the Delete button, and half of Fortune 500 vanishes.

Remember, it was Apple out of everybody who was granted an exemption from punitive tariffs on China.

Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by free_rms on Friday July 10, 2020 @09:29AM (#23791269)
It's not just money, there were decisions made over the course of 30 years that got us to this point.

And, yes, those decisions were influenced by money but they were also influenced heavily by American Exceptionalist arrogance. Of course our culture will dominate theirs and they'll take their rightful, subservient place to us in the global order.

Never mind that they literally converted their own conquerers to Chinese culture TWICE (mongols/yuan, manchu/qing) in the last millenium.

Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by toxik on Friday July 10, 2020 @09:52AM (#23791448)
What do you mean “press delete”? China is not in a position to blackmail the US via financial means, not even in the slightest. If they sold their treasuries, they would be bought in a heartbeat by others with a penchant for stable valuation.
Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by baybal2 on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:01AM (#23791531)
> What do you mean “press delete”?

I mean they would prohibit all vital operations of these companies in China. What would Apple do if China will give them a Huawei treatment?

They wouldn't even be able to move away from China, if their Chinese suppliers would be told to cease doing business with Apple globally.

Pretty much every globally prominent company dealing with light industries, manufacturing, electronics has some things in their products which they cannot reasonably expect to get elsewhere but in/from China.

Second to that: check what you saw in the previous half of the year. A lot of living essentials are made almost solely in China. Would US elites be ready to deal with angry unwashed masses who, with some help, and incitement, would go torch their houses because they can't get not only their new Iphone, but basic medicines, clothing, car parts, basic household goods, widgets for their businesses, and such?

Unless Americans are ready for that, they can't fight China, and the people in Beijing know it very well.

Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by ardy42 on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:50AM (#23792017)
> Second to that, as you saw in the previous half of the year. A lot of living essentials are made almost solely in China. Would US elites be ready to deal with angry unwashed masses who, with some help, and incitement, would go torch their houses because they can't get not only their new Iphone, but basic medicines, clothing, car parts, basic household goods, widgets for their businesses, and such?

I don't think it'd play out like that. It's been a few generations, but Americans have experience with wartime rationing that was far more extreme. They didn't riot and demand a peace treaty with Hilter and Tojo, so they could could get the consumer goods they had been used to having.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_the_United_States

https://www.history.com/news/food-rationing-in-wartime-ameri...

Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by baybal2 on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:25AM (#23792452)
This sentiment has logic to it.

But, I don't see any US president standing for it before the election, or at least attempting to sell it to his electorate/funders, unless pretty much a hot war is happening.

USA was the biggest industrial power by late thirties, and I think no country would've stood for Germany in the open on the global arena by then. The situation is more than a bit different now.

Be hopeful that the politicians will be as logical as you are.

Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by ardy42 on Friday July 10, 2020 @12:50PM (#23793466)
> But, I don't see any US president standing for it before the election, or at least attempting to sell it to his electorate/funders, unless pretty much a hot war is happening.

I don't think it would be a hard to sell the American public on some kind of rationing if Beijing suddenly embargoes the US in a way that necessitated it. Given the economic dependencies that you cite, I think a US-initiated decoupling would likely proceed slowly enough to not cause critical disruption, just higher prices.

Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by ericmay on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:19AM (#23791691)
> What would Apple do if China will give them a Huawei treatment?

Well, all those people would instantly be out of a job for one. What Huawei factories in the US are being shut down? It's one thing to lose market access, it's another to lose jobs.

> Pretty much every globally prominent company dealing with light industries, manufacturing, electronics has some things in their products which they cannot reasonably expect to get elsewhere but in/from China.

Cheap is a better word here. There is not a single item in China that can't be replicated elsewhere in the world for consumer products.

> A lot of living essentials are made almost solely in China.

Because of cheapness, not because they can't be created elsewhere. Many countries can create these goods, including the U.S.

> Unless Americans are ready for that, they can't fight China, and the people in Beijing know it very well.

Americans might not be "ready" but they can definitely decouple with China if push comes to shove.

Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by toxik on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:17AM (#23791678)
Banning Apple means taking a hit to the economy, likewise for all the other industries you mention. The Chinese economy is just as dependent on Western economy as the reverse. Nobody wins when the world economy grinds to a halt. Especially not the exporter, the importers will just import from somebody else if conditions favor that.
Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by baybal2 on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:20AM (#23791704)
https://theconversation.com/we-estimate-china-only-makes-8-4...

> We estimate China only makes $8.46 from an iPhone

Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by codekansas on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:35AM (#23791846)
Interestingly, this is basically by design.

> No two countries that both had McDonald's had fought a war against each other since each got its McDonald's. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lexus_and_the_Olive_Tree

Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by jcranmer on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:52AM (#23792045)
And as noted in the Wikipedia article, this was disproved within months by NATO involvement in the Yugoslav Wars.

It should also be noted that there were plenty of experts who would tell you that the world is now too economically intertwined to be able to support any major war between major powers... in 1914. Economic integration preventing global conflict has been disproven time and again in history.

Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by ardy42 on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:42AM (#23791907)
>> No two countries that both had McDonald's had fought a war against each other since each got its McDonald's. [0]

> [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lexus_and_the_Olive_Tree

It's worth noting that most of the wiki article is basically a list of counter-examples that proved that statement false. There have been a half-dozen wars between McDonald's-havers.

Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by asa4akj on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:47AM (#23791973)
and only one of those examples is before the publishing year
Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by jcranmer on Friday July 10, 2020 @10:21AM (#23791708)
What would Chinese companies do if half or more of their business suddenly dries up? Supplying the US is a major sector of China's economy, and the economic fallout of cutting that link will fall just as hard on China as it does on the US.
Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by baybal2 on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:11AM (#23792277)
> What would Chinese companies do if half or more of their business suddenly dries up?

Sell to another country at lower prices, and less profit than the can get from the US?

Re:USA Sanctions Chinese Officials, Including Politburo Memb... by jcranmer on Friday July 10, 2020 @11:16AM (#23792351)
Who? Export substitution of non-fungible products is quite difficult.