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Re:U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native Americ... by danShumway on Friday July 10, 2020 @09:38AM (#23791339)
I have no personal guilt over my ancestors. I have sympathy for the problems they created, and I have some culpability in benefiting from them. But it's not about guilt. The problem hasn't been fixed yet, and we are responsible for fixing it.

Since HN is the world of programming analogies:

I inherit a broken, bug-filled codebase when signing on for a new job. A year into continued development, a team mentions to me that the codebase is utterly broken for one of the tasks it was designed to do.

I respond, "why are you trying to make me feel guilty about code I didn't even write? The problem with programming 'outrage culture' is we have all these people talking about the flaws of jQuery and coupled interfaces and inadequate testing. It's not my fault the codebase suffers from those problems. I'm a good programmer."

The argument stops sounding reasonable in that context, because we recognize that fixing the code isn't about anybody's ego. Similarly, it is impossible to have a productive conversation about reparations when someone is spending all of their time trying to defend that they're a good person.

In reality, nobody cares about your guilt and nobody cares about whether or not you pass some kind of magic threshold where you can be considered 'good' or 'bad'. The entire question is worthless. They just want the problems fixed, and "we" collectively as a nation are responsible for refactoring and addressing problems that exist in the current systemically biased laws/treaties that we inherited.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native Americ... by leetcrew on Friday July 10, 2020 @01:12PM (#23793750)
I don't think this is a particularly good analogy either. you don't have some moral obligation to fix up the old code for the other team. you do it because that's what you're getting paid for. if you really don't feel like fixing it, there's nothing wrong with quitting the job.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native Americ... by danShumway on Friday July 10, 2020 @03:52PM (#23795631)
Point taken, but I'm not sure what quitting a democracy looks like. I guess legislators in Oklahoma are free not to run for government positions? And citizens are free to either stop voting, or possibly move to a different state?

But my instinct is that if someone says to me, "I don't want to deal with fixing inherited broken systems", at the very least my response to that is going to be something along the lines of, "that's fine, but then don't get in the way of other people who are fixing them."

Re:U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native Americ... by CathedralBorrow on Friday July 10, 2020 @06:13AM (#23789894)
What is this obsession with some people in thinking this is all about making them "feel bad"? Feels like such a self-centered point of view.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native Americ... by StanislavPetrov on Friday July 10, 2020 @03:18AM (#23789012)
Whether or not you are a terrible person has nothing to do with legal obligations. If your ancestors took out a loan and signed a lien against a property, that doesn't just go away if they die. Its a legal contract. The whole "white guilt" argument about some sort of collective burden that people are supposed to bear is entirely unrelated to a codified, legal treaty signed by our government.
Re:U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native Americ... by astrange on Friday July 10, 2020 @03:40AM (#23789115)
> If your ancestors took out a loan and signed a lien against a property, that doesn't just go away if they die. Its a legal contract.

This is true, but only because liens are special, not because it's a contract. You're not a party to your ancestors' debts or contracts if they die. At most, their estate is.

Re:U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native Americ... by StanislavPetrov on Friday July 10, 2020 @04:05AM (#23789248)
Oklahoma is our country's estate.