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Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by chrisseaton on Thursday June 25, 2020 @03:28PM (#23644520)
> There's a few brands out there still, but there is a noticable stigma in the professional community around equipment that isn't Canon

Really? I had no idea (as an outsider.) I thought Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fujifilm, etc were all pretty much equal in terms of serious quality. I thought their DLSs all looked pretty much the same. Is that not the case?

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by lb1lf on Thursday June 25, 2020 @03:45PM (#23644731)
-Oh, it is about more than just quality - say, a pro DSLR should be able to double as a hammer if you need to drive in a few nails to hang your backdrop from. Also, autofocus should be instantaneous, and should be able to lock on a bat in a coal mine. (It is a bonus if the high-ISO performance of the sensor is capable of freezing said bat in flight using only natural light.)

Obviously, I exaggerate for effect - but a pro body should first and foremost be utterly reliable no matter what it is subjected to...

(Oh, and it should be compatible with the lenses you already have - as they can easily be a few thousand dollars a piece. Now, that's some serious lock-in!)

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by ISL on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:13PM (#23645098)
For me, the biggest questions are: Can I leave the camera powered on, always? and Can I handle it effectively with gloves on in the snow?

Those two questions drive as much of my camera choice as do technical concerns.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by numpad0 on Thursday June 25, 2020 @11:01PM (#23648255)
I have a Nikon dSLR that seizes up electrically if left with 70-300 VR attached for weeks. Fixes itself if left with a fresh battery and an 18-55.

I wonder how often that will happen with other brands like Alpha.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by vladvasiliu on Friday June 26, 2020 @01:27AM (#23648966)
I used to have a Canon 40D with a 17-40/4 and later a 17-55/2.8. That camera would only be off when the battery was in the charger. Never had any problem whatsoever.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by sudosysgen on Friday June 26, 2020 @03:02AM (#23649468)
I can personally handle my A7ii with gloves, but no you can't always leave it on. I mean, you can, but not for much more than two or three hours.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by ISL on Friday June 26, 2020 @07:52PM (#23658298)
I realize that I'm moving the goalposts a little -- here in Washington, gloves in the snow means soggy softshell gloves. Over time, my 6D has continued to build my trust that I can operate everything that needs operation when my gloves are squishy.

I first started using a full-frame camera in 2017 and looked hard at a number of options, expecting to wind up with an A7R-series camera -- the sensors are just awesome. I was coming from an EOS-M background. It was a revelation to me the first time I rented a DSLR and never needed to turn it off. I only turn the camera off when it is packed away within luggage.

One-handed case-open-grab-grip-up-to-eye-compose-and-shoot with gloves on was just amazing. No waiting... and I was practiced at switching on a camera as it left the case. Now, when I'm chasing wildlife, I can regard them through the viewfinder for hours without fear of draining the battery. The battery is only tapped if I hit the back-button focus or depress the shutter. I suspect my next camera will again be mirrorless, as the advantages are many, but if so, I'm really going to miss the always-ready capability of an SLR.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by renewiltord on Thursday June 25, 2020 @03:32PM (#23644570)
Huh, it's funny. I didn't know this either as someone who only dabbles. The only reason I bought Canon is that the community has aftermarket firmware.

Honestly, I wouldn't buy Nikon or Pentax or whatever just because no aftermarket firmware.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by sudosysgen on Thursday June 25, 2020 @03:42PM (#23644680)
Sony doesn't have aftermarket firmware but the firmware up to the A7ii has been hacked so you can run Android apps and control the camera that way. As far as photography is concerned there's no need for flashed firmware beyond that.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by tomduncalf on Thursday June 25, 2020 @06:42PM (#23646606)
Have you got a link for more info on the hacked firmware? Hadn’t heard of it before. Thanks!
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by sudosysgen on Thursday June 25, 2020 @07:59PM (#23647218)
https://github.com/ma1co/Sony-PMCA-RE

Here you go. You can edit the firmware to change read-only settings and install Andrioid apps, with an API to access the viewfinder and to take pictures with various settings as well as access them, and the network.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by tomduncalf on Friday June 26, 2020 @04:13AM (#23649820)
Oh wow, I had no idea this existed. Interesting, I have a RX100m3 and A6000 that can probably run it. On my RX10m4, they removed the apps feature, which I think was probably a good move for Sony despite restricting the feature set - they are really clunky to use (each app takes over the camera and has its own set of settings, takes ages to start up etc.) and the functionality they provide would make more sense either built into the firmware or as a phone app.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by tomduncalf on Friday June 26, 2020 @04:14AM (#23649826)
There are a few projects on Github wrapping the API which the PlayMemories mobile app uses (so you can take photos, access the viewfinder etc), which may be of interest to some: https://github.com/Bloodevil/sony_camera_api for example (I’ve not tried any of these)
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by renewiltord on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:52PM (#23645566)
Oh interesting, thanks for sharing that.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by akersten on Thursday June 25, 2020 @03:39PM (#23644643)
Past a certain price point, kit from any brand delivers photos and photographic performance that one would have a hard time finding technically wrong or inferior to that of another brand. So by all accounts, we should see a lot of variety in the cameras and lenses that are used professionally.

However, take a look at articles like this[0] to see just how prevalent Canon gear is at professional events. Apparently, they even have relations with a lot of press outfits to have them exclusively shoot with their equipment.

[0]: https://www.shutterbug.com/content/battle-canon-vs-nikon-sup...

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by easygenes on Thursday June 25, 2020 @03:44PM (#23644713)
For professionals, a lot of that selection also comes down to serviceability. When Sony started gunning for more of the professional market with the A9 they had to up their service game and it’s still considered lacking.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by ben7799 on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:28PM (#23645297)
Bingo.. having used Canon service quite a few times they are just fantastic at that part.

The brand wars are mostly an amateur thing.. once you decide on a brand if you're really serious and especially if you're running a business you don't jump brands over little differences in sensor performance because it's too much financial churn and you lose your muscle memory switching to a camera with a different control layout.

But it really sucks if your gear goes down and it's hard to get it serviced.

Canon's service is fast, excellent, and much more affordable than replacement.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by csharptwdec19 on Thursday June 25, 2020 @05:47PM (#23646149)
> you lose your muscle memory switching to a camera with a different control layout.

This is a -huge- thing for some folks.

Have a colleague who does some light pro photography (i.e. weddings, concerts, etc.) I wouldn't call him a Canon zealot or anything, although his first comment at my Sony was 'Well, it's not a Nikon so I can still be your friend.'

We were showing each other shots and he was amazed at what I was able to produce with an e-mount. So he decided to give it a little spin.

All the feedback was around 2 points:

- It took good shots, but.

- Everything was so unfamiliar to him that he missed shots due to not being able to find anything.

Some time later I ran into him again; he had tried Sony cameras a few more times but just couldn't get comfortable enough with the layout.

(The Sony layout -is- kinda bad, even if it's what you've learned on.)

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by haditab on Thursday June 25, 2020 @06:40PM (#23646591)
As someone who recently switched to Sony from Canon; I don't recall ever having to 'learn' the menu layout with Canon. It was just pretty obvious. I'm 100% sure that I never read the user manual and I never googled how to find anything in the menus.

The Sony layout on the otherhand is just terrible. Sure, you can customize all the programmable buttons and menus and it gets much better, but it still takes a long time to learn. Also, had to watch a ton of youtube videos of people changing settings on their camera (the fact that there are so many for Sony cameras should hint to how terrible the menu is).

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by NovemberWhiskey on Thursday June 25, 2020 @06:15PM (#23646384)
It's not subtle stuff either.

For instance, zoom rings on Canon and Nikon lenses go opposite directions; exposure compensation dials go opposite directions etc.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by brendoelfrendo on Thursday June 25, 2020 @03:58PM (#23644895)
A lot of my friends from school were photo students, and Canon was far and away the platform that they were taught on, as well. Some did shoot on Nikon cameras as a matter of personal preference, but almost all of the school's gear was Canon (until you got to specialized stuff like Hasselblad medium-format cameras).
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by geerlingguy on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:36PM (#23645386)
Almost all photojournalists I knew used Canon (70%) or Nikon (30%) exclusively up until 5 or so years ago.

And when you're talking about camera systems, the camera itself (which is where Sony currently has the lead in mirrorless) is not the biggest factor in choosing a brand.

Canon and Nikon both have tons of specialist lenses that are still not available (or only have one flavor specializing in one space, at one very high price point) on newer mirrorless platforms.

And if you've invested $50k-100k in lenses (e.g. for a photography department) are you going to turn on a dime and dump that gear for new fancy Sony equipment that costs more than your old glass? Likely not.

And many PJs still need some of the qualities that you can really only get in top-end Canon or Nikon DSLRs (as someone else said, ability to drive nails with the camera, and huge grip).

As a concrete example, imagine if you were tasked with taking footage or stills of one of the protests at night. Would you rather bring a rock-hard large-gripped body that could even be used for protection? Or a smaller body with a screen that would break from a minor scuffle and cheaper plastic, less waterproof construction?

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by chrisseaton on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:47PM (#23645509)
Are the lenses not compatible between cameras?
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by sudosysgen on Thursday June 25, 2020 @08:02PM (#23647250)
They are, but not perfectly. You can buy smart adapters that let you use Canon, Nikon or Minolta lenses on Sony, though the first two are not perfect for all lenses.

As long as the flange distance of the sensor from which you're adapting is significantly more than that of your camera and you manage to decode the autofocus communications protocol, you can adapt them.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by renewiltord on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:57PM (#23645617)
They are not. An explanation here https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/57625/can-i-use-ca...

Short version: optical physics, proprietary link for autofocus, capability differences

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by chrisseaton on Thursday June 25, 2020 @05:06PM (#23645705)
This could be like mortar tubes - the country with the biggest tube can more-or-less fire anyone’s mortar rounds but you can't fire theirs.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by sudosysgen on Thursday June 25, 2020 @08:00PM (#23647230)
This is somewhat the case. The camera with the shortest flange distance can use lenses from any other camera given your ability to reverse engineer the protocol.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by csharptwdec19 on Thursday June 25, 2020 @05:50PM (#23646181)
Funny you mention that...

Really aside from Nikon, most AF protocols are fairly well understood and can be adapted to other lenses.

(in the case of Nikon, sometimes they go out of their way to break others using their systems/protocols without a license...)

But you can use larger mounts on a smaller mount (with care!) May not need a bigger tube, but perhaps a longer or shorter one.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by reaperducer on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:49PM (#23645534)
When I was in journalism, one of the city's big newspapers shot all on Nikon gear, and the other big newspaper shot all on Canon gear. Anything else, and you were a blogger.

As a point of humor, the Nikon paper was the working man's paper for city dwellers. The Canon paper was for suburban commuter suits.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by rckclmbr on Thursday June 25, 2020 @03:35PM (#23644603)
I agree with you, Canon and Nikon seem like the "Costco" brands so maybe while he pointed them out. But Sonys mirrorless are top of the industry. Fujifilm has great cameras. And you cant forget Leica
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by easygenes on Thursday June 25, 2020 @03:51PM (#23644799)
Leica is using Sony sensors, so them as a selection is mostly for the name and aesthetic. The UI is more limited and shooting RAW negates anything to do with “color science” selections for the default in-camera JPG encoders.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by dllu on Thursday June 25, 2020 @03:59PM (#23644910)
They are not using Sony sensors. They are using CMOSIS sensors (which has been acquired by ams).

Fujifilm, Nikon, and Panasonic are using Sony sensors, however.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by greyswan on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:40PM (#23645440)
- Each company has unique glass. - Each company has unique physical control schemes and software UX. - Color profiles allow you to apply the color science to RAW files. Some apps will automatically apply the color profile you select while shooting when you are processing later.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by easygenes on Thursday June 25, 2020 @06:14PM (#23646373)
My response was addressing the perennial partisan quips that brand loyalists in the camera scene have about preferring one brand’s color science over another. I’m basically saying it’s moot if you shoot raw because your color grading can be as wild as your dreams in post. Unless you’re a live journalist, you probably should be shooting raw.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by lb1lf on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:08PM (#23645032)
-Name, aesthetic and UI. Rangefinder cameras do have their purpose still - being able to see what is going on outside the frame is a great aid, as is its ease of focusing in low light.

And, to a lesser extent now that mirrorless cameras are a thing - their unobtrusiveness.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by weinzierl on Thursday June 25, 2020 @03:56PM (#23644864)
> Leica is using Sony sensors

Do you have a source for that? As far as I remember they have been very secretive about their sensor supply chain.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by sudosysgen on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:01PM (#23644936)
Some Leicas use CMOSIS, others used Sony sensors. In any case, Sony makes the best sensors by a mile.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by regulation_d on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:19PM (#23645170)
Sony and Panasonic have really strong offerings if you primarily do video, but i think the vast majority of people who take photographs for a living still use Canon and Nikon.
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by meowzero on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:47PM (#23645511)
Maybe it depends on the industry? I've dabbled part-time, almost went full-time. Photographers were intrigued I used a Fuji, but they didn't care beyond that. Clients didn't care either as long as you delivered results.

And you're right, most high-end photos take amazing photos. There's some variance in their color science, but most can take near-identical photos. I think the main differentiator among the camera is haptics.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by da02 on Thursday June 25, 2020 @06:26PM (#23646470)
How come you didn't go into pro photography full-time? What did you do instead? Any downsides to using Fuji ecosystem?
Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by meowzero on Thursday June 25, 2020 @07:13PM (#23646855)
I was a fashion photographer. I lived in a small market. To take the "next step" I would've needed to move to NYC or another big market. Also, I was getting paid a lot in my day-job to make that type of sacrifice. And it wasn't like I hated my day-job. I'm also risk adverse and not in my 20's to make that huge leap in my life. I also hustled hard and got burnt out. I stopped and started phasing out my clients.

I didn't see any downsides to using the Fuji ecosystem. I loved it. Every time I found something that might be disadvantageous in my line of work, they fixed it (eg. Capture One support). In fact, if I were to have upgraded, I would've gotten their medium format camera.

Re:Olympus quits camera business after 84 years by sudosysgen on Thursday June 25, 2020 @03:39PM (#23644640)
Of course, they are all almost equal, and lately Sony has really been killing it, though the others are getting good at mirrorless too.