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Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by AHappyCamper on Thursday June 25, 2020 @08:56AM (#23640137)
Of course - and thank you for asking. One of my friends is a paramedic who primarily works in ambulances in LA.

One day, he arrives at a scene after a passer-by called 911.

A homeless man is lying on the street on top of garbage and cardboard boxes. There is urine and feces everywhere - it's a bad situation - and there are used needles lying next to the man.

The man is obviously in medical distress, and is unable to respond. When they try to attend to him, he wakes up and swears at them and swats at them, but then says he feels like he's dying and wants help. When they come close again, he again swears at them and swings at them.

As a matter of protocol, they have to radio in to headquarters and explain their situation.

This is tricky - they have to be politically correct about how they describe him. He's visibly degrading quickly, and may soon die if they don't intervene, but instead, they have to spend previous time on the radio making sure they use all the politically terminology so that no offense is caused - describing the homeless in California is a very politically charged subject and they could be disciplined if they use the wrong words.

If he is going into cardiac arrest, seconds can be the difference between life and death, and they're using them on trying to remember all the correct terminology and socially-acceptable phrasing.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by marcus_holmes on Thursday June 25, 2020 @09:51AM (#23640733)
Radio protocol is extremely specific. As is medical terminology.

If they're required to use a term for a person, but haven't been briefed on what term to use, then I think there are bigger problems there and "political correctness" is not the problem. Basic communication is. They will also not be penalised for using the wrong term when there's no briefing on what the correct term is.

If they can't remember what term to use when they have been briefed on it, then they have bigger problems (there are thousands of medical terms they presumably also struggle to remember).

So, were they briefed on the correct term or not?

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by AHappyCamper on Thursday June 25, 2020 @11:44AM (#23641978)
I don't understand. Why does it matter if it's a specific communication protocol? If you have to filter your language when you're in a life and death situation with a potentially dangerous person who has used needles lying around, you've used up precious processing power that could otherwise be used to keep yourself safe and the sick person alive.

For the record - I checked with them - and they told me they were asked to take a test to check if they harbored "unknown biases". They were then sent to diversity and inclusion training, and came out totally confused about what to do and say, but they were assured that the hospital and the ambulance services were monitoring comms and wouldn't look favorably on "potentially offensive" terms.

Trying to describe a homeless man sleeping on rotten cardboard boxes who is covered in urine and feces with needles strewn around everywhere, who is both asking for help and attacking them is VERY HARD to do without using a term that someone could potentially find offensive.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by joshuamorton on Thursday June 25, 2020 @12:44PM (#23642629)
I don't understand: you just did that. What was difficult about it?

(and I'll note that you spent a bunch of time mentioning ultimately irrelevant details. Being homeless, or in an area with feces and urine and cardboard probably aren't relevant to anyone responding. The important facts are that there's a person in need of immediate medical assistance, the area is potentially hazardous, and the person is being uncooperative).

Those are the three things that need to be conveyed.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by AHappyCamper on Thursday June 25, 2020 @02:20PM (#23643786)
They're relevant details because they directly affect the health and safety of the ambulance staff, and protocol dictates that they call in on anything that could be hazardous to them. Not to mention that those details could affect the treatment of the patient.

See? This is the problem. The filtering is more important to some people than actually doing the job correctly.

This is why speech must be free, because I don't want a paramedic who's treating me to be debating exactly how to define me to dispatch. I just want them to save my life.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by joshuamorton on Thursday June 25, 2020 @02:37PM (#23643973)
No, I don't see. Precise communication is of the utmost importance in life and death situations. Consider pilots. The communication is extremely structured so as to precisely convey relevant information. Pilots are trained specifically and at length on how to communicate over radios in normal and emergency situations. This is done to make communication more efficient and effective. And these choices are data driven.

You're arguing for essentially the opposite of that.

> They're relevant details because they directly affect the health and safety of the ambulance staff

A person being homeless is not relevant to the health and safety of the medical staff. A person sitting on wet cardboard is not relevant to the health and safety of the medical staff. The area being hazardous is relevant, and was conveyed. You may argue that "the area has feces and needles" is necessary to communicate. And that's fine.

> This is why speech must be free, because I don't want a paramedic who's treating me to be debating exactly how to define me to dispatch

No, if this is your goal what you want is paramedics who are well trained in how to communicate effectively over radios, much like pilots are. This has nothing to do with free speech. Restrictions and regimentation on speech in this context would actually make the communication more effective. For example, specific guidance on what things should be communicated about the hazardous area: that feces and needles are relevant but that cardboard boxes and homelessness aren't. This way, there are fewer wasted words.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by coffeeling on Friday June 26, 2020 @02:10PM (#23655090)
> For the record - I checked with them - and they told me they were asked to take a test to check if they harbored "unknown biases". They were then sent to diversity and inclusion training, and came out totally confused about what to do and say, but they were assured that the hospital and the ambulance services were monitoring comms and wouldn't look favorably on "potentially offensive" terms.

The tragedy of that is that IATs don't even measure what they purport to or, generally, work: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/174569161986379...

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by pbourke on Thursday June 25, 2020 @02:21PM (#23643794)
"conditions are unsanitary and dangerous to the crew and patient is confused and ucooperative yet is requesting assistance"

That seems better than "there's a homeless guy with a bunch of needles and feces" in terms of descriptiveness.

Edit: aren't communications protocols a very standard thing among first responders / military / hospitals / etc?

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by raxxorrax on Thursday June 25, 2020 @10:37AM (#23641231)
In Germany we have a similar phenomena too. Hard to translate, but unemployed people are now called employment-searching people for example. I get it, there are some people that think they are lazy, instead almost everyone wants to get a job. The terms are constructed to counter these prejudices, but unemployed people actually feel more discriminated against because of the blatant paternalism from academics that have no idea about being unemployed or actually working in a free economy.

Social sciences call that framing and I think it is really not constructive in many ways. Euphemisms don't help the people in question. Their last crusade is of course the gendered nature of our language, so every maskuline term has to be changed to be neutral. They could open their own mental asylum by now. To be fair, there are many social workers that really put in effort and have long since given up to fight against this insanity. But those are the one who actually have contact to patients.... CLIENTS! I am sorry, we don't call them patients anymore if their suffering is due to mental conditions....

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by coffeeling on Friday June 26, 2020 @02:11PM (#23655100)