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Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by uniqueid on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:33PM (#23636622)

    > Firing, cancelling, and silencing anyone with a 
    > 'bad' opinion doesn't convert them to a 'good' one.
However it can prevent people with "different views" from evangelizing effectively. Look at the anti-vaxers, "chem trails", or 5G conspiracy theorists: the majority of these paranoiacs didn't independently arrive at these theories.
Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by dependenttypes on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:49AM (#23638376)
If anything censoring them makes their opinions more credible.
Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by missosoup on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @11:53PM (#23636736)
> However it can prevent people with "different views" from evangelizing effectively

How'd that work out with the Trump election and the massive resurgence of outright racism and sexism? How far does one's subjective view of the world around them have to diverge from reality before they stop and think, huh, maybe this doesn't work at all. Silencing dissenting views has never worked in history. Not once. It just increases internal societal pressure until it reaches a critical point and boils over, usually in a physically violent upturn.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by uniqueid on Thursday June 25, 2020 @01:13AM (#23637139)

    > Silencing dissenting views has never worked in history
There may be a grain of truth to that, but I don't think a historian, even one who agreed with its thrust, would feel comfortable with it as a blanket statement.

I don't really want to have this sort of heated debate this evening. Sorry.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by missosoup on Thursday June 25, 2020 @01:17AM (#23637160)
It's simple. Name one historical example where this strategy of systemic censorship of an ideology worked and didn't blow back.

You can't. There aren't any. It always blows back. America is just failing to learn from a lesson that's been taught to various empires for millennia.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by watwut on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:03AM (#23638046)
> It's simple. Name one historical example where this strategy of systemic censorship of an ideology worked and didn't blow back.

It worked majority of the time. It typically stopped to work only when power to be ceased to have power.

Both nazism and communism were extremely successful in this. The monarchies did this successfully for very very long time. It ceased to work only when their lost power for unrelated reasons. Saudi Arabia is going strong.

The suppression of nazi ideology post WWII did not lead to blow back either.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by missosoup on Thursday June 25, 2020 @08:21PM (#23647379)
> It worked majority of the time. It typically stopped to work only when power to be ceased to have power.

Which is to say it has never worked. Because all power structures eventually collapse and yet the ideologies they tried to suppress remain and rise again. And sometimes, it's actually the resurgence of those suppressed ideologies that destroys the established power structures. As is the case in the USA right now.

> The suppression of nazi ideology post WWII did not lead to blow back either.

You can't be serious.

https://www.ft.com/content/dcd4aee8-936f-11e9-aea1-2b1d33ac3...

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by watwut on Friday June 26, 2020 @04:54AM (#23650022)
By that measure, nothing works ever, because every system dies one day regardless of what they suspend. Such standard is completely useless. Also, "ceased to have power" typically means failure to suppress.

That being said, Nazi Germany did not lost because of internally suppressed people raising, they lost because foreign forces won on battle field. They were quite successful in keeping control.

> You can't be serious.

I am serious. There is nothing to suggest that contemporary German issues have anything to do with post WWII suppression of Nazism. They don't.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by uniqueid on Thursday June 25, 2020 @01:25AM (#23637207)
You got me! Enjoy your evening :)
Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by nmfisher on Thursday June 25, 2020 @05:01AM (#23638448)
Mainland China.

I’m still convinced that it will eventually implode. But it hasn’t yet, and I may well be wrong.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by sfj on Thursday June 25, 2020 @02:25AM (#23637495)
> However it can prevent people with "different views" from evangelizing effectively. Look at the anti-vaxers, "chem trails", or 5G conspiracy theorists: the majority of these paranoiacs didn't independently arrive at these theories.

That's throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If everytime someone tries to blow the whistle on something, they are called a conspiracy theorist and allowed to be censored, you are basically giving the people in charge infinite power and zero accountability.

Re:Those who exercise free speech should also defend it even... by flukus on Thursday June 25, 2020 @04:35AM (#23638286)
> However it can prevent people with "different views" from evangelizing effectively.

I really don't think it does, it just drives them to spaces where you don't personally see them and these spaces typically reinforce and strengthen their beliefs because they go unchallenged there. It also makes it easier to suck in others because those beliefs aren't being discovered in an open forum where they can be challenged. There's also a lot of cross pollination, the 5g nutters for instance have been driven from (or never part of) mainstream circles, so now their discussing things in their own spaces with other craziness thrown in, it will get mixed in with other craziness like being a jewish conspiracy to take over the world or some rubbish.

The internet gave us a brief period where every groups craziness was open for everyone else to see, now we're reverting to make things were like before the internet.