News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The death of the private citizen? by wahern on Tuesday June 23, 2020 @09:32PM (#23622885)
The trend has been quietly discussed in political-economic circles for many years. Here's a relatively recent media article about it: https://www.curbed.com/2019/11/22/20976309/migration-millenn... And somewhat recent academic summary: https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/1209_mi... (Choice quote: "Back in the 1950s, almost one fifth of all Americans changed residence annually.")

In percentage terms it doesn't seem that large, there's some complexity to the trends when comparing short- and long-distance moves, and of course the primary cause is assumed to be our transition from an industrial to service oriented economy, as well as the closing of the Western frontier (e.g. end of the Cold War and loss of defense jobs put an end to the great California migration). But I think the trends are amplified in our cultural expectations, which is why I brought up the shift in film and television narratives, which makes it apparent even for people who never lived in the 1980s, when migration began to wane. Obviously people still move for work, just not as much they used to. Likewise, the notion that you can and could move to improve your economic position isn't gone, it's just relatively diminished.

Re:The death of the private citizen? by perl4ever on Tuesday June 23, 2020 @11:07PM (#23623561)
I didn't notice the brookings link at first, so I checked it out.

Perhaps you could elaborate on what you gleaned from this. It does have information about work related moves, but I'm not going to digest it tonight.

The first impression I get is that the proportion of people moving for work has gone up, while the overall number of people moving has gone down, but presumably population increased, so it seems to me that the relevant question is which trend is winning?

Having an opinion kind of implies you have looked into it, however I don't mind doing some arithmetic later.

Re:The death of the private citizen? by perl4ever on Tuesday June 23, 2020 @09:54PM (#23623034)
The article [on curbed.com] you link to doesn't seem to focus on people who move for work. In fact the chart titled "The reasons people move" doesn't even include "for work"! I don't see what you think is the "it" that "doesn't seem that large". I mean, yes, the fall in the number of people moving for work, but what is the source?

[Edit] It seems to say the proportion of people moving for work has increased, while the total has decreased. I can't see there's enough information to figure out the net change. When I ask for a source, I mean, I don't see it here.

Maybe looking on a .gov site for census data would be more fruitful, but you could also be candid about where your opinion comes from, which doesn't require doing a lot of research for the benefit of anonymous strangers.

Something that I try to remember when I feel defensive about possibly not having a good argument for something is that I can defuse it by simply explaining how I convinced myself and letting go of overthinking what would convince others.

Re:The death of the private citizen? by wahern on Tuesday June 23, 2020 @10:29PM (#23623294)
My opinion comes from the literature I read studying political science and international affairs in college during the late 1990s, the literature I read studying law a decade later (I so miss free journal access), and generally following the academic discourse for the past 20 years.

In any particular year people tend to mine the longer trends for evidence related to whatever is most interesting at the time, thus the millennial angle in the Curbed article, or the extended discussion of the Great Recession in the Brookings paper, but if you go down the rabbit hole, both in the data sources and the academic discourse, discussions about the larger trend come into the foreground. Anyhow, I was asked for some links about the trend in work relocations, and I provided some, trying to balance my own sincerity and convenience. The millennial and Great Recession sidetracks notwithstanding, the prima facie evidence is right there. Who cares what graph they're showing? I provided the links for the words, not the pictures, and the heading of that article says "After 40 years of steady declines in domestic migration, mobility has hit a new all-time low". (Anyhow, if the graph presented the only reasons people moved, it would only make my point stronger.) Follow the primary sources, even (or especially) if you're driven by incredulousness--nothing can motivate hours of sleuthing like Internet rage. That's what makes the Internet so great.

Sometimes I catalog useful links to primary or important secondary sources, but I don't really have any at hand for this topic. There's nothing particularly disputable or even (IMO) counterintuitive about the trend except for the implications, but in this case you merely challenged the basic assertion that people are moving less for work.

Re:The death of the private citizen? by noir_lord on Wednesday June 24, 2020 @08:17AM (#23626996)
Journal access, Google 'libgen' or 'library genesis'
Re:The death of the private citizen? by perl4ever on Tuesday June 23, 2020 @11:00PM (#23623519)
>nothing can motivate hours of sleuthing like Internet rage

Is that your motivation, to produce "Internet rage"?