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Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by Spivak on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @10:50AM (#23539778)
High Schools are on the student’s side when it comes to college admissions. So when you’re on the honors track of your HS you almost literally can’t fail because your HS is trying to get you into better schools. Your HS is playing the game with you.

The secret of being an honors kid isn’t aptitude but being told that you’re smart and your parents/peers expecting it of you.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by thaumasiotes on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @11:34AM (#23540380)
> The secret of being an honors kid isn’t aptitude but being told that you’re smart and your parents/peers expecting it of you.

How much teaching experience do you have? I'm including any time you tried to convey a skill to any other person.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by Spivak on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @12:25PM (#23541004)
Sure! I tutored the majority of my classmates in Calc and Physics and I did not find one person I believed couldn’t do it. I did find a lot of people who believed they couldn’t do it, weren’t good at math, and wanted to give up though.

Some of the main problems:

* A lot more people than you would expect have attention issues and just needed someone to give them one-on-one attention. They would get distracted in class for a minute and then be lost for the rest of the lecture. I got permission from our teacher to record the lectures and then had people work through them with the advantage of a pause and rewind button.

* Some people were really independent and our textbooks were utter trash. I brought them “more advanced” books like Spivak ayyy that didn’t treat the reader as an idiot too stupid for a rigorous explanation. Having someone not “teach down” to them opened up so much. Easiest tutoring sessions ever when they just needed some quiet space to read. It’s amazing how much lack of understanding comes from years of teachers treating them as stupid and trying to have them memorize shortcuts that convey no understanding and don’t generalize.

* A few people were very tactile and so I brought in my laptop with Mathematica and had a bunch of examples coded up and let them play with the sliders. So many people groked limits and integrals with this.

* Some people needed more or less abstraction. Symbol overload is real. I loved saying something like “and this is true for any 17.” Connecting problems to “real life” wasn’t as effective as I had hoped but putting numbers in or having a variable cheat sheet they could quickly reference the meaning / value worked great!

* Some people learn by machine learning. They need a bunch of problems to work algorithmicly to feel the pattens. I called them numeric tactile. Once they’ve done it 50 times or so they’re ready to hear the abstract explanation because they’ve oriented themselves.

* A lot of people struggled because HS has so little focus on rote memorization. People didn’t have the toolbox of identities and little tricks at the forefront of their minds but some flashcards and cheat sheets fixed that right quick. I had like 5 people suddenly get trig identities once I made them memorize a few of the core ones. Constantly asking them to repeat something back to me whenever it came up was way more effective than I thought.

As you can clearly see I didn’t have much of a social life in HS.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by thaumasiotes on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @04:32PM (#23543712)
Replying separately to the tutoring anecdotes, you reminded me of someone I tutored who was having trouble learning the chain rule. He got it after going through (with supervision) a single example I assigned - calculate the derivative of sin(sin(sin(sin(sin(x))))). At which point he rather angrily exclaimed "why isn't that example in the book?!"

I'm not quite sure what the connection is, but the combination of

> Easiest tutoring sessions ever when they just needed some quiet space to read.

> A lot of people struggled because HS has so little focus on rote memorization.

brought it back.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by thaumasiotes on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @03:05PM (#23542838)
Your calculus and physics classmates are not a representative sample of people.
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by Spivak on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @03:48PM (#23543265)
Sure, but I don't have any prior belief that my classmates -- kids around my age in my area which was lower-middle to upper-middle class depending on the neighborhood at a middling school -- skewed more proficient in math than the general population.

Of course it's not representative but I find it hard to believe that some no name school happened to be where the math nerds all hung out.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by thaumasiotes on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @04:25PM (#23543628)
The population of students taking calculus in high school is already skewed more proficient than the general population just by that fact. (Obviously, the causality runs in the other direction, but the skew is there.)
Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by malandrew on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @11:15AM (#23540107)
> The secret of being an honors kid isn’t aptitude but being told that you’re smart and your parents/peers expecting it of you.

This condescension isn't even based on fact. I was in some honors classes but not in others and for the classes I was in an honors class, I had more aptitude than my peers. For those in the classes I was not in, those peers had more aptitude than me (probably more motivation too since it was for subjects I didn't care for like English Literature)

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by Spivak on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @11:48AM (#23540562)
I mean I don’t think it’s condescending. I was the “smart kid” at my HS. People on the honors track weren’t any smarter than the rest, we just cared a lot more about our grades and looking good for colleges.

The “low performers” during HS, now that they’re unburdened by a stifling institution, are showing that they’re just as smart and talented but in areas that school didn’t bring out. One is a pastry chef, quite a few are artists and graphic designers, one is a copyrighter, one does industrial design, two are in theater now.

They could have done just fine in maths and physics but they, rightfully, didn’t really care.

Re:Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions ... by neilparikh on Tuesday June 16, 2020 @02:41PM (#23542589)
Universities can adjust for grade inflation. For example, a Waterloo, the Engineering admissions department compares high school averages to first year averages to see how much scores drop, and use that to compute an adjustment factor by school (the logic being that if your marks dropped more than average, then your school was probably inflating your mark from the "true" mark you deserved).