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Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @02:21PM (#23480353)
> The problem is that would "disincentivize engagement" and no one would ever offer such a thing.

It's actually a slightly different problem.

Advertisers want the people who are willing to pay for stuff.

If the advertiser pays $0.03 to show you the ad and you could get out of watching it by paying the same amount, the only people watching the ad would be the most aggressive of cheapskates who never buy anything. Nobody wants to advertise to them, so there would be no point in even trying to sell advertising. But that's not even the problem.

The problem is in order to collect $0.03 you would need a functioning micropayments system that both doesn't charge prohibitively high transaction costs and doesn't invade everybody's privacy by de facto giving the bank your browsing history.

Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by danShumway on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @05:07PM (#23482130)
So many problems on the web at least partially stem from the fact that we have still not come up with a fundamentally good way to move money around digitally. There is no equivalent to cash on the web.

- The amount of hoops we jump through to get around the problem that credit card numbers are fundamentally insecure is absurd. Transactions can be arbitrarily canceled up to a month after they happen, and platforms like Paypal will then happily charge you an extra fee for the privilege of reversing the payment.

- Bitcoin was also obviously a dumpster fire in this regard. It's not clear Bitcoin was ever going to be anything but a dumpster fire; the transaction fees were always going to make it terrible for micropayments, and they were baked into the design pretty early.

- GNU Tailor has been occasionally making the rounds for years, but I don't see any kind of timeline for getting real banks to adopt it.

It's a difficult problem.

But I suspect a truly decent micropayments system that didn't suffer from all of the privacy/gatekeeping/transaction-fee problems of credit cards and Paypal would fundamentally change the web.

Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by searchableguy on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @05:23PM (#23482290)
You can help in shaping web monetization api - https://webmonetization.org/
Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by jodrellblank on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @05:37PM (#23482445)
> The problem is in order to collect $0.03 you would need a functioning micropayments system

And a functioning microdecision system that didn't wear you down from making decisions about whether everything you try and do is really worth spending or not spending $0.03, minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day.

Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by jakear on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @02:38PM (#23480548)
It’s always seemed to me that this would be fairly easy by just setting up a “wallet” model. I.e fill up wallet with $20, browser extension has a “tip” button where your wallet gets deducted however many cents and the site owner’s gets added the same amount (challenge is identifying the site owner). You re-up every so often, perhaps automatically, and everyone goes on their merry way.
Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by parliament32 on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @04:10PM (#23481491)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flattr

Been around for a decade, run by the old Piratebay guys.

Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @02:57PM (#23480725)
Then people pay for things and don't like what they received. The cardholder wants their money back, and you have two choices.

Choice one, you have a dispute resolution system which costs money which requires high transaction costs, and can't have $0.03 transactions. Choice two, you don't, the user gets mad, disputes the charge with the credit card company and then the browser extension goes out of business due to chargebacks.

What you need is something that works like cash. Money is exchanged for goods and services, the end. If somebody steals from you or rips you off, your recourse is by recovering it from the person who ripped you off, not the bank. If that makes people stop doing business with shady people using this payment method, fine. Still works for the local newspaper.

Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by jakear on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @03:07PM (#23480837)
Or just make the tips refundable for a short time period with no formal process (submit a short sentence about why for later review in case of abuse suspicion maybe). If people abuse the system, ban them (eta: identity banning should be pretty easy given you need to provide a credit card) If sites frequently get refunds requested, disable the app for them.
Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @03:31PM (#23481078)
> Or just make the tips refundable for a short time period with no formal process

Then you get the fraud the other way. People get content and then ask for a refund.

> If people abuse the system, ban them

So now you're back to needing an expensive dispute resolution process.

> If sites frequently get refunds requested, disable the app for them.

Which punishes the sites who are the most common victims of buyer fraud.

There are three options. Option one, dispute resolution process, high transaction costs. Option two, caveat emptor, no refunds. Option three, caveat venditor, totally unconditional refunds.

And option three doesn't really work either, because if readers are anonymous they could all ask for a refund with no consequences, but if they're not it's a privacy problem. So what you really need for small transactions is option two. Which isn't really a problem for small transactions, because they're small -- if somebody rips you off to the tune of $0.03, whatever, lesson learned, don't do business with them again.

Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by jodrellblank on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @05:40PM (#23482479)
> if somebody rips you off to the tune of $0.03, whatever, lesson learned, don't do business with them again.

They won't need you to do business with them again. 10k viewers being ripped off is $300, and let the site fail, onto the next domain to do it over again.

Now it's the email spam problem - every site gets to rip you off $0.03, you add them to your blocklist, but there are so many you never hear of that site again anyway.

Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by jakear on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @08:58PM (#23484083)
I don’t think people would pay 3 cents to every site? Or pay the money before even seeing content?

I envision this as more of a European style tipping than American: I read an article, watch a video, cline a GitHub repo, etc. I find that the content is well made and I’d like to support the creator. I press the “tip” button in my browser and top them some small amount (<$1 in most cases).

This way there’s no need to deal with refunds, bad actors, etc.

Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday June 10, 2020 @10:44PM (#23484740)
> Now it's the email spam problem - every site gets to rip you off $0.03, you add them to your blocklist, but there are so many you never hear of that site again anyway.

We already have this problem with clickbait. They get the $0.03 from filling their site with spamvertisements and then waste your time getting you to click on it. Whether the $0.03 is from you or advertisers is irrelevant.

Though you could add a "screw those guys" button where you don't get your money back but they don't get it either. That might even allow there to be no transaction costs, by using that money to fund the system.

Re:You can bypass YouTube ads by adding a dot after the domain by jodrellblank on Thursday June 11, 2020 @01:25AM (#23485462)
A "give the money to their competitors" button, I like the sound of that.