America is giving up on the pandemic?

Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by redisman on Sunday June 07, 2020 @03:08PM (#23449786)

What ever the answer is (and I don’t think there’s a non-partisan one), we’re screwed. Hopefully we’ll get new data on masks giving us a 80/20 solution since I don’t think either side of the political divide is going to buy the stay-at-home order much longer. “How come they can break it but we can’t?”

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Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by pstuart on Sunday June 07, 2020 @03:18PM (#23449900)

We are screwed. Partisanship has been extended to such a degree that it guarantees that "both sides" remain opposed.

Science should not be a partisan topic. Mistakes get made, but those should be learning opportunities rather than a chance to discredit your "opponent".

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Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by jdsully on Sunday June 07, 2020 @06:37PM (#23451615)

Science is partisan because its being misapplied. It cannot tell you what you should do, that is the realm of leadership. All it can say is whether a course of action may lead to a certain outcome.

Whether such outcome is desirable vs the trade-offs is not a scientific fact as desirability only exists in the minds of each individual.

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Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by jtbayly on Sunday June 07, 2020 @07:19PM (#23451946)

Your comment seems to actually mean that “science is partisan the moment it is being applied at all.”

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Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by jdsully on Sunday June 07, 2020 @08:56PM (#23452513)

No, and this is core to the point:

Science has found no universal "utility" function that applies to all humans. As such its impossible for science to maximize utility, or in laymens terms "outcomes" globally for all humans. We must choose what we find important and there is no scientific tool to do so.

Once you've decided what's important sure you can apply science to help you make the best decisions to achieve that outcome.

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Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by marcosdumay on Sunday June 07, 2020 @09:50PM (#23452814)

Well, science is partisan the moment it is being applied at all.

The most science can tell you is what are the consequences of some act. Deciding if they are good or bad and if they are worth taking is a completely politic act.

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Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by jtbayly on Sunday June 07, 2020 @11:03PM (#23453200)

Don’t get me wrong. I agree with the thrust of what you’re saying. It’s just that the parent said it was partisan because it was being misapplied as opposed to applied at all. I was trying to point out the contradiction in the comment. That’s all.

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Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by jdsully on Sunday June 07, 2020 @11:10PM (#23453233)

I do believe you can apply science once a goal or desired outcome is decided upon. There is no known science that can help you come to a goal. E.g. science can't tell you that we should reduce pollution but can help if we decide that's a worthy goal and worth the tradeoffs.

Perhaps as we better understand the brain that may change.

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Re:America is giving up on the pandemic? by tayo42 on Sunday June 07, 2020 @10:09PM (#23452914)

The anti lock down people were allowed to protest. With weapons publicly displayed too...

This isn't a fair question, people will protest and go back to their lock down down life. Reopening is sustained interaction.

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