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Re:Zoom says it won’t encrypt free calls so it can work more... by jaywalk on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @11:33AM (#23404501)
>The "we need universal E2E to protect our freedoms even if there are downsides" is not, in logical form, a million miles different from 'we need guns everywhere to protect us from the government and damn the negative consequences of having guns everywhere', frankly

I agree, and I agree with both of those. Giving up freedom/privacy for safety is almost always a losing bet.

Re:Zoom says it won’t encrypt free calls so it can work more... by bonaldi on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @04:25PM (#23408200)
The actual trade-off is giving up safety to gain the illusion of freedom.

With guns, the state will always outgun you. So the gun-riddled society sees children in its schools murdered staggeringly often, while its (supposedly free) citizens are tear-gassed with impunity by a state for nothing more than a photo opportunity.

That was not a winning bet for that society.

It's similar with E2E. It can't protect you from the government, because the protection is illusory – it protects just you so long as the state wants it to. When it no longer wants it to, it makes it illegal. Administrations are already heading in this direction.

Meanwhile E2E enables a number of proven harms, from lynchings to child abuse. Is that a worthwhile trade-off just for the protections it gives from corporate or illegal privacy invasion? Would it lose all of those benefits if legitimate law enforcement were allowed access? There is at least a debate to be had, there.

Re:Zoom says it won’t encrypt free calls so it can work more... by jaywalk on Thursday June 04, 2020 @08:29AM (#23415708)
I see it as the exact opposite: giving up freedom for the illusion of safety. Using the tear gassed protesters as an example, when there have been protests where a large number of protesters were openly carrying firearms, nobody gets tear gassed. Neither the cops nor the protesters get remotely violent.

The people with the guns aren't attending the current protests, and you can see how that has worked out.