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Re:Science without Validation in a World without Meaning by guscost on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @04:42PM (#23396057)
The botched response to COVID-19 will bring the whole institution of modern science crashing down, when all is said and done. Maybe you don't want to believe that, but there it is: https://guscost.com/2020/05/12/pandemic-woo/

By the way, I still have not heard of a single serosurvey being run in South Korea. Why is that?

Re:Science without Validation in a World without Meaning by pjkundert on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @06:27PM (#23397179)
Why, indeed.

It's almost like people just don't want to know the CFR of this thing... Why wouldn't you want to know the CFR, in exquisite detail, down to groups refined by as many distinguishing details as you can possibly measure? But, surprise! You simply cannot know the CFR of Covid-19 without statistically valid immunity studies of the general population. Which nobody is doing! Just ... crazy.

Its stunningly clear that outcomes for this disease are wildly variable. For some, its extremely risky, for other groups, its not even a passing thought!

And yet, here we are -- global, carte-blanche "quarantining", to "flatten the curve" -- that big, ill-defined "curve" that means sudden death to our civilization if we get near it!

And yet, here I sit in a community with virtually empty hospitals, but almost no progress toward herd immunity. But, with an undercurrent of well-distributed carriers -- because nobody is interested in testing the general population (for either infection or immunity). And, we're starting to "open up". Heaven help the elderly and immune-compromised -- they are just toast.

In 2-3 weeks, a brutal "second wave" is just ... guaranteed. And, it'll be presented as a "surprise"! Who could have possibly predicted it! By golly, we'll have to really put the hammer down, this time!

I pray that this bungled, too-terrible-to-be-an-accident response to Covid-19 comes home to roost on those who should have known better. But, the truth won't be coming out from the criminally complicit "media". If only we had any "Journalists" to expose this thing! But, big-media is on the gravy-train of the politicians (here in Canada, at least), so there's no hope of that.

Independent journalists need to step up, somehow run the gauntlet of our controlled Internet media outlets (say something contrary to WHO -- ban-hammer!), and expose this thing!

Fortunately, evidence-based reality cannot be suppressed forever!

Re:Science without Validation in a World without Meaning by guscost on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @10:35PM (#23399083)
> In 2-3 weeks, a brutal "second wave" is just ... guaranteed. And, it'll be presented as a "surprise"! Who could have possibly predicted it! By golly, we'll have to really put the hammer down, this time!

I don’t think this will happen in the northern hemisphere, thankfully. There is reason to believe both that effective R drops off a cliff in the summer months, and that we’re much closer to herd immunity (or whatever is possible with this kind of virus) than most people think. If you want references I can dig them up, but I guess we’ll see either way in a few weeks.

Re:Science without Validation in a World without Meaning by redis_mlc on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @12:05AM (#23399552)
> we’re much closer to herd immunity (or whatever is possible with this kind of virus) than most people think

Certainly for SF/LA, which is basically an extension of China because of the daily flights to SFO and LAX.

The SF tests show 3.6% of 78,000 exposed to corona, but nobody knows how accurate those tests are. The hospital dashboard has been flat.

I just checked, and the numbers have been flat (no growth) for over a month, with only 62 deaths to date and 38 in ICU now:

https://www.sccgov.org/sites/covid19/Pages/dashboard.aspx#ho...

Re:Science without Validation in a World without Meaning by roelschroeven on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @05:55AM (#23401703)
> I don’t think this will happen in the northern hemisphere, thankfully. There is reason to believe both that effective R drops off a cliff in the summer months, and that we’re much closer to herd immunity (or whatever is possible with this kind of virus) than most people think. If you want references I can dig them up, but I guess we’ll see either way in a few weeks.

All sources I've seen before say something different about those two things (i.e. supposedly effective R will maybe go a bit down in summer but in all likelihood not by much; and herd immunity is in most (or all) places still very far away), but I'm not following the science very close so I might very well be wrong. I'd be very grateful if you could dig up those references!

Re:Science without Validation in a World without Meaning by guscost on Friday June 05, 2020 @02:12PM (#23431826)
Re:Science without Validation in a World without Meaning by WildParser on Wednesday June 03, 2020 @06:10AM (#23401790)
Yes, indeed. When you talk to an epidemiologist (e.g. a doctor of physics), ask him to look at f'/f (death per day/death total) in a log-chart they'll tell you that it is 'useless' to look.

If you show him a straight line with R²>0,99 (e.g. Germany using 7 day averages) - they will tell you that it all means nothing and that the curve in fact is bending - because the 'policies' must have worked.

If you tell them that working policies should have left visible marks in the curve and that the curve is converging: They will just block you.

Science is dead - at least in the field of epidemiology.