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Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by aerophilic on Monday June 01, 2020 @11:20AM (#23379472)
Interesting they didn’t also include Blue Origin in the mix: https://www.blueorigin.com/

In my opinion, we should see crewed sub-orbital flights from them within the year, and possibly crewed orbital flights in the 4-8 year time frame... where those crewed orbital flights may have capacity to go all the way to the moon.

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by valuearb on Monday June 01, 2020 @12:07PM (#23380021)
BO has been testing New Shepherd for four years with little visible progress, hoping for crewed flights this year is audacious. It’s unclear whether New Shepherd will even be continued based on all the other projects on their plate, and the likely limited demand for their minimal joyrides.

And calling them sub-orbital is being generous. Mercury suborbital flights flew much higher and faster, and actually covered hundreds of miles in a parabolic arc. By comparison New Shepherd is a toy, a very expensive trampoline.

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by dwaltrip on Monday June 01, 2020 @12:24PM (#23380271)
New Shepherd crosses the Karman line. It travels into space. I don’t know why you are insinuating otherwise. Obviously, it is quite far from orbiting but it is a legitimate, albeit brief, trip to space.

That being said, I agree with you that their progress has been pretty damn slow. They do 1-2 test flights per year...

As for demand, doesn’t Virgin Galactic, who will offer something very similar, have a customer list with hundreds of people who have prepaid? Demand might be much higher than you are suggesting.

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by derekp7 on Monday June 01, 2020 @10:02PM (#23386481)
To me, sub orbital is a "trip to space" in the same way as a non-stop flight from New York to LA is a "trip to Kansas" since you fly over it and other states in between.

You aren't going "to" some place unless you can actually stay there for a period of time. But that is just my personal view.

Another way of looking at it -- if the earth didn't have an atmosphere, would you be going "to space" by jumping on a trampoline? (ignoring the fact that we evolved to live in an atmosphere, of course).

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by dwaltrip on Monday June 01, 2020 @10:58PM (#23386894)
Well, space tourists are likely going more for the 100km view and the zero-g experience, which is present for a few minutes on a sub-orbital trip. Given that you can't get this experience anywhere else, a few minutes is better than nothing.

The exiting of the atmosphere is part of the view [1], but it works in concert with the altitude. Trampolines, as far as I am aware, are incapable of propelling one to an altitude that provides such incredible views :)

[1] https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_1...

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by JumpCrisscross on Monday June 01, 2020 @01:14PM (#23380949)
> with little visible progress

They've been making a lot of progress. The BE-4 engine is under development. And their orbital rocket and lunar lander were announced within the last few years.

It's a slow-and-steady approach, sure, but they're making tangible progress.

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by valuearb on Monday June 01, 2020 @03:47PM (#23382900)
Press releases aren’t progress.

Work on the New Glenn started in 2012. It was publicly announced in 2016. It’s still at least a year from flight.

Work on the BE-4 started in 2011. It’s first public planned release date was 2017, it’s at least 4 years late.

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by mr_toad on Monday June 01, 2020 @09:30PM (#23386238)
Raptor engine development started in 2009. It took ten years for one to actually fly.
Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by valuearb on Tuesday June 02, 2020 @01:03AM (#23387634)
The Raptor was a tiny project at SpaceX, behind the Merlin, Falcon 9, and Falcon Heavy in investment in its first years, and commercial crew in later years.

BE-4 is the #1 project at BO, which is funding R&D at $1B a year.

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by whatshisface on Monday June 01, 2020 @03:12PM (#23382452)
I think the slow-and-steady branding is kind of funny when the competition appears to be fast-and-steady.
Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by 51Cards on Monday June 01, 2020 @12:01PM (#23379949)
I keep wondering if Blue Origin has something up their sleeve. New Shepard has a great track record but only for sub-orbital hops so far and hasn't yet carried human passengers after 12 successful flights. The New Glen concept looks interesting but it has been in the works for a long time with nothing visible yet. They do also have a great engine in development with customers for it. Several years back Blue Origin used to friendly troll SpaceX on who was leading who but now it's not even talked about. I'll be curious to see how complete New Glen is when they roll it out as more competition, more better.
Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by valuearb on Monday June 01, 2020 @12:11PM (#23380073)
BO was founded before SpaceX, has spent far more than SpaceX and has accomplished squat.

The BE-4 has been “sold” to customers but started development before Raptor, and is far behind it in technology and accomplishments. We won’t see a BE-4 flight before next year, if even that soon.

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by icelancer on Monday June 01, 2020 @01:29PM (#23381154)
>> BO was founded before SpaceX, has spent far more than SpaceX and has accomplished squat.

Oh, that's not true. They've filed a lot of litigation in that timeline!

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by itsoktocry on Monday June 01, 2020 @12:22PM (#23380246)
>has accomplished squat

Accomplished squat? They're building rockets and engines, mostly out of the public eye, with private money. How is that nothing? Because it isn't the exact path SpaceX is taking?

BO wants to land on the moon by 2024. Let's see what happens.

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by 51Cards on Monday June 01, 2020 @12:49PM (#23380583)
I'm not a BO hater by any means but I find that timeline to be virtually impossible. On the most basic level the craft they would need to use hasn't even seen the light of day, let alone accomplished any orbital flights.

Something like the moon is a very iterative process. You need orbital flight capabilities, second and perhaps third stage capabilities, life support, launch abort systems, landing and take off from the moon, EVA gear and provable safe earth re-entry... just to name the few key ones off the top of my head. All are huge challenges and you have to solve them step by step with multiple test at each level.

The year 2024 is 4 years away. At BO's current test rate of 2-3 flights a year, and with a rocket that hasn't come out of the factory yet I can't possibly see how it could happen. I look forward to what they will accomplish but they have a very very long way to go.

Edit: adding that BO did recently win a contract to develop a lander only for the Moon and this is much more feasable. But it would still be docking with NASA's Orion for the actual trip there and back.

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by adventured on Monday June 01, 2020 @12:54PM (#23380648)
> mostly out of the public eye, with private money.

While I agree with the sentiment of your comment, BO is also developing with public money. It's true that their funding has largely been private, it's not exclusively so however.

"Blue Origin will receive up to $500 million from the United States Air Force over the period 2019 - 2024 if they are a finalist in the Launch Services Agreement competition, of which they have received at least $181 million so far."

"Blue Origin has also completed work for NASA on several small development contracts, receiving total funding of US$25.7 million by 2013"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Origin#Funding

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by robszumski on Monday June 01, 2020 @11:59AM (#23379919)
This might have been punishment for them being too secretive. The press can only talk about your plans if they have enough information.
Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by valuearb on Monday June 01, 2020 @12:12PM (#23380083)
The press can only talk about your accomplishments if you actually have some.
Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by itsoktocry on Monday June 01, 2020 @12:29PM (#23380334)
>The press can only talk about your accomplishments if you actually have some.

Why is it that Elon Musk fans claim to be about these overarching, prohumanity missions ("Accelerating the transition to renewable energy! Enabling people to live on other planets!"), but then spend half their time hating on competitors with common goals?

Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by icelancer on Monday June 01, 2020 @01:29PM (#23381161)
Because along the way, Elon actually gets things done.
Re:America has more new spaceships on the way by mzkply on Monday June 01, 2020 @01:04PM (#23380805)
They're not building an orbital capsule...