News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by Barrin92 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @12:46AM (#23319465)
The article has a very strong "throw enough sh__ and see how much of it sticks" tone to it. Mark Zuckerberg asking Xi for a baby name or American entertainment producers trying to play friendly with the Chinese market isn't really 'enabling the communist party' in any meaningful sense of the word. And Chinese media replaying some CNN clip isn't really evidence of anything either given that you can take everything out of context.

The one thing from the article I'd agree with is bad is Bloomberg interferring with the journalists reporting at his own company. There should be a strict line between Bloombergs other business interests and the editorial at the newspaper.

Otherwise I think there's a lot of confusion in the article between the conflation of the private market changing products to be popular in China, which is fine and simply reflects their status as a consumer, and actual propaganda efforts.

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by woutr_be on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @01:42AM (#23319713)
> American entertainment producers trying to play friendly with the Chinese market isn't really 'enabling the communist party' in any meaningful sense of the word

I think this is where a lot of people would disagree. Once companies give in to demands of censorship or anything that goes against our Western values, you're basically letting China know that they can get away with it. And to me, that's directly enabling their behaviour.

On the other side, if you don't give in to their demands, you're essentially missing out on a huge market, so most companies pick money over morals.

There's a difference between changing products to be popular in China, and censoring words to be allowed to operate in China. Sadly for a lot of companies, one cannot go without the other.

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by KONAir on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @01:59AM (#23319813)
The entertainment industry in a globalized market will act according to demands (and regulations if any left) in the market and nothing else. It is fascinating to watch as popcultures "values" slowly shift towards the bigger market that is China and create an awkward set of synthesized values (most recent and talked about being new Star Wars movies).
Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by 082349872349872 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @01:57AM (#23319801)
As a capitalist in a third world country, it seems like in principle a bit of competition ought to be good for both the 2nd and 1st largest economies. Remember the Avis "we try harder" campaign?
Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by woutr_be on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:04AM (#23319846)
In principle, competition is good, I agree. However, in this case, you need to give up your principles to even be allowed to compete.

Look at what happened to the NBA, they didn't give in to China's demands, and just like that, they're out. The same goes for any company that's not willing to give up it's morals and values.

That's not competition, that's just extortion.

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by CountSessine on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:07AM (#23319862)
Except this isn’t commercial competition - it’s a competition in values and the role of the state in people’s lives. It’s Enlightenment values vs thinly disguised fascism. It’s a competition, alright - just be careful which side you’re fighting for.
Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by 082349872349872 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @04:18AM (#23320681)
Thankfully there are almost two hundred sides from which to choose. Il faut de tout pour faire un monde. Nie mój cyrk, nie moje malpy.
Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by dntbnmpls on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @05:16AM (#23321042)
> The article has a very strong "throw enough sh__ and see how much of it sticks" tone to it.

It's intpolicydigest. What did you expect? What you don't know what intpolicydigest is? Yeah me either.

But the article is just the rehash of the same propaganda you see all over social media and "news" sites like foxnews, breitbart, etc.

That china has some pull in media due to its potential lucrative market isn't news. But the idea that they have enablers is laughable. If they had enablers, we wouldn't have had nonstop propaganda about ughyurs, organs, coronavirus, etc for months on end. Israel, Saudi Arabia and britain have enablers in our media. China is on the outside looking in. But I have a sneaking suspicions intpolicydigest isn't going to run hitpieces on israel or saudi arabia.

Speaking of enablers, I would love to see who the enablers of "intpolicydigest" are.

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by bsder on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:00AM (#23319825)
> Otherwise I think there's a lot of confusion in the article between the conflation of the private market changing products to be popular in China, which is fine and simply reflects their status as a consumer

I, personally, have a problem with this.

It's part of the reason why Hollywood movies have devolved into such pablum--you can't risk pissing of China now that 1/2 of your income is due to the Chinese release.

I no longer consider doing business with China to be "neutral". China doesn't regard it this way either--China is more than happy to throw it's weight around against American businesses--see Blizzard.

So we should treat them reciprocally. It's time to disconnect from China.

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by rmrfstar on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:21AM (#23319943)
There's a monopoly angle here too [1].

I remember doing a face-palm when I watched "Gravity." The whole conflict centers around a cascade of space-junk caused by Russia shooting it's own spy satellite. In the movie, the Chinese space station saves the day. In reality, China actually shot down it's own satellite, rendering it's orbit and adjacent orbits unusable for the foreseeable future. [3]

I'm all for international cooperation, but we have to engage with reality.

[1] https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/its-time-to-break-up-disn...

[2] https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/how-bill-clinton-and-amer...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_mi...

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by myopenid on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:49AM (#23320108)
Lol. American movies also tend to romanticize the wars they wage.
Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by rmrfstar on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:54AM (#23320133)
Moxie gave a nice talk about American action movies [1].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOMiAeRwpPA

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by MagnumOpus on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @07:47AM (#23321869)
Whataboutism, and false equivalence between movie makers distorting their own country's history (of which PRC is even more guilty than the US), and movie makers giving in to a foreign country's threats and whitewashing that country's crimes.
Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by myopenid on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:32PM (#23327720)
Consider it as a compliment that China thinks your propaganda is too potent for the Chinese population to handle.
Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by Barrin92 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:06AM (#23319857)
>It's part of the reason why Hollywood movies have devolved into such pablum--you can't risk pissing of China now that 1/2 of your income is due to the Chinese release.

You also could never afford to piss America off, which is why every other protagonist in hollywood movies is some Tom Cruise lookalike who combats people who speak English in a broken Russian accent.

Just seems normal to me, the only difference is that the other 95% of the world population now have enough cash to vote with their wallets and American companies learn what it's like to operate in a world where different cultures have different values.

Sure you can disconnect from everyone, but that doesn't sound wise long term, in particular not for Hollywood.

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by woutr_be on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:13AM (#23319898)
> You also could never afford to piss America off, which is why every other protagonist in hollywood movies is some Tom Cruise lookalike who combats people who speak English in a broken Russian accent.

This is different tho. You can produce a movie that pisses off people, and still have it play in theatres.

If you make a movie that pisses of the Chinese government, not necessarily the people, then that movie won't even be shown in China.

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by kmonsen on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:58AM (#23320152)
Hollywood used to have is own moral code and that is not all that different: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=933011...
Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by myopenid on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:51AM (#23320120)
China pissed off the US so much they blacklisted Huawei, and threatens anyone working with it.
Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by creato on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:22AM (#23319945)
> Just seems normal to me, the only difference is that the other 95% of the world population now have enough cash to vote with their wallets and American companies learn what it's like to operate in a world where different cultures have different values.

This is not Chinese citizens "voting with their wallets", it's the Chinese dictatorship dictating what is allowed to be shown in the country. One unilateral vote.

The equivalent is the US government outright censoring and banning movies. It's hard to even imagine how such a thing would play out because it is so far fetched, yet we (well, at least you) accept it from China. Why?

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by Barrin92 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:40AM (#23320057)
>, yet we (well, at least you) accept it from China. Why?

because it's not my job to tell China how to run their country. This is mostly a distinction without a difference anyway because the Chinese would obviously not enjoy watching a lot of movies in which they're the bad guy and Captain America saves the day.

It's like if you make a movie that insults the Prophet Muhammad a lot of Muslims won't like it, and neither will a bunch of autocratic governments, but it doesn't really make much difference in practice. If one of said countries was on their way to become the world's largest economy that'd probably be reflected in film production over time.

The real issue here is that global consumption now more closely reflects the actual demographics of the globalised economy, which means if producers want to serve all those markets they'll have to be more sensitive to different audiences or regulations.

It's like French radio stations demanding that a quarter of all lyrics be in French. If that was a 20 trillion dollar economy you bet a lot of musicians would make more French songs

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by Zhenya on Thursday May 28, 2020 @04:39PM (#23342256)
>because it's not my job to tell China how to run their country. This is mostly a distinction without a difference anyway because the Chinese would obviously not enjoy watching a lot of movies in which they're the bad guy and Captain America saves the day.

Are you sure they wouldn't enjoy it? You think people like living under oppressive regimes?

And speaking of not telling people how to run their countries; morality is relative? Imprisoning political enemies and subjugation of their families is ok?

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by bsder on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @05:00PM (#23329913)
> You also could never afford to piss America off, which is why every other protagonist in hollywood movies is some Tom Cruise lookalike who combats people who speak English in a broken Russian accent.

Michael Moore's documentaries get shown in theatres as do others.

Such movies about Chinese bad actors wouldn't get even a single showing in China. And would probably get the director placed in jail.

You can slag on America for lots of things. This isn't one of them.

And, by the way, one of James Bond's enemies was effectively Rupert Murdoch (Tomorrow Never Dies). So, even English enemies appear in Hollywood films.

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:15AM (#23319914)
Who's disconnecting everyone? Have we observed Brazil doing this sort of thing at the same level as China? Australia? Nigeria? Canada? Anyone else other than China?
Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by misja111 on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:26AM (#23319966)
How about the USA's most valuable ally, Saudi Arabia?

Anyway, I think many countries would want to do the same as China but they just don't have the leverage to do so.

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by AnthonyMouse on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:29AM (#23319986)
> Anyway, I think many countries would want to do the same as China but they just don't have the leverage to do so.

But that's the point. It's the reason Saudi Arabia doesn't count. It only matters if they're doing it and are a large enough market to affect the international market. Nobody's changing their movies to capture the 0.4% of the world population that lives in Saudi Arabia.

Re:China’s Communist Party and Its American Media Enablers by airocker on Wednesday May 27, 2020 @02:12AM (#23319887)
What if the "value" is bullying/stealing? I think the comment suggests "learn to live with it".