News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by AnonC on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @01:59PM (#23238010)
There’s DoT (DNS Over TLS), which operates on port 853, uses TCP and provides encryption. But it’s also something network operators can easily block since it runs on a specific, separate port. DNS over HTTPS (DoH), on the other hand, rides on HTTPS/port 443, which cannot be blocked in networks without causing major disruptions to the rest of the web traffic.

A more detailed comparison is here:

https://www.thesslstore.com/blog/dns-over-tls-vs-dns-over-ht...

Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by dsl on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @02:48PM (#23238572)
You can run DoT on 443 as well.

Providers that want to block DoH or DoT are going to block providers based on destination IP or certificate fingerprints, not port numbers.

Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by middleclick on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @02:50PM (#23238598)
Providers are hesitant to block IP addresses for a multitude of reasons, one of the simplest ones being that different services can run on a single IP.

And running DoT on a non-standard port breaks all sorts of things because it will be ... non-standard.

Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by the8472 on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @03:33PM (#23239121)
That kind of reasoning reinforces the existing problem instead of breaking things up by making support for arbitrary ports essential.
Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by corford on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @08:01PM (#23241812)
If there was a coordinated embrace and move to DoT (at least for the "last mile" part between end users and resolvers), network operators wouldn't be able to get away with blocking it (see secure IMAP, secure POP etc. for similar shifts in the past).
Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by sneak on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @09:22PM (#23242353)
The internet is decentralized and "coordinated embrace" is not realistic or practical. See also: IPv6.

Pretty much the whole of the internet has been jammed into tcp/443 now, and it can't much be helped. Internet engineering needs to cope with the world as it is, not how we wish it were.

Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by corford on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @05:53AM (#23245042)
>The internet is decentralized and "coordinated embrace" is not realistic or practical.

I disagree, see the success of: letsencrypt, the wide spread use of 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1; dkim/spf/dmarc; imaps, pop3s, tls ldap.

Why should a switch over to DoT be any different? If anything it should be easier. The general need for better security and privacy are much more widely understood and accepted concerns these days.

Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by tptacek on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @10:31PM (#23242711)
The opposite is true: most DoT advocacy comes from operators (and suppliers to those operators) who specifically and overtly intend to filter DNS.
Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by LogicX on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:36AM (#23243586)
As said DNS operator (founder and CTO of DNSFilter.com) - I concur. We’ve been offering DoT for years, but are about to improve the offering with 0-RTT support.

We’re also working on POCs of DoH support, but it’s mostly moot compared to our DoT offerings which cover the whole OS, not just the browser.

Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by tptacek on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @01:47AM (#23243651)
Operating systems are going to do DoH (Microsoft already is), and that's going to be the end of it --- browsers, the most important application, are already bought in. DoT is a footnote.
Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by axaxs on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @03:32AM (#23244265)
While I truly respect your credentials, I disagree 100% with your conclusion and think DoT will win out. Should be fun to visit this thread in a year, just to see.
Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by tptacek on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @12:47PM (#23249017)
If you want to put a couple bucks on this, I'd be happy to put my money where my mouth is. :)
Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by notfoss on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @02:28PM (#23250123)
Android - at least for now - supports DoT. But, who knows, they might switch to DoH in the future.

https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/docs/using#an...

PS: I have been using it for a while and it works fine.

Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by corford on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @05:44AM (#23244978)
>browsers, the most important application, are already bought in

That's an interesting way to phrase it. The RFC for DoH is co-authored by Mozilla. They didn't buy in, they created it.

Re:A safer and more private browsing experience with Secure DNS by m3047 on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @02:53PM (#23238642)
> DNS over HTTPS (DoH), on the other hand, rides on HTTPS/port 443, which cannot be blocked in networks without causing major disruptions...

And your point is what, exactly? TLS allows for traffic redirection and for a time people were using this to circumvent firewalls but the big providers who looked the other way locked it down when their traffic started being blocked.