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Re:Notion for everyone by Benmcdonald__ on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @01:07PM (#23237250)
There is no easy way to implement client side encryption. You will have a private key or long password the you will keep safe. You lose that all your data in gone. Plus it's difficult to securely move that password to a new platform
Re:Notion for everyone by chc4 on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @01:08PM (#23237270)
Your data being inaccessible without a private key or password is the entire point.
Re:Notion for everyone by JoshTriplett on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @01:38PM (#23237697)
People rightfully get skittish when there's no "forgot password" mechanism to get their account and data back.

I certainly agree that that's the point, but such a system needs some potential usability affordances. For instance, a key stored in the browser rather than a password the user has to remember, and ideally a key synced between multiple devices controlled by the user so that the loss or failure of one device does not mean loss of the account.

For example, imagine having the browser generate an asymmetric key for the user, and making sure browsers store such keys (encrypted) in Firefox Sync or equivalent, so that the keys are safe even if the user moves to a new device or an existing device fails or gets lost.

Re:Notion for everyone by franky47 on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @04:46PM (#23239974)
I wrote some ideas on how to implement a password reset for end-to-end encrypted apps, reviews and comments are welcome:

https://francoisbest.com/posts/2020/password-reset-for-e2ee-...

Re:Notion for everyone by mkl on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @08:41PM (#23242104)
Keeping an unencrypted local mirror on your own device(s) would solve that problem, as well as potentially the "my data is stuck on their servers" problem. On devices with space for it, I mean, so maybe laptop but not phone by default.
Re:Notion for everyone by Benmcdonald__ on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @04:23PM (#23239719)
How do you even sync the key between multiple devices? If you send the private key to the server that undoes any protection from the encryption
Re:Notion for everyone by franky47 on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @04:45PM (#23239966)
You derive a master key from a password, and use that to encrypt other keys, or a more complex key chain if needed. You then only sync encrypted keys with the server.
Re:Notion for everyone by JoshTriplett on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @04:37PM (#23239887)
Firefox Sync has a model that doesn't trust the server.
Re:Notion for everyone by drukenemo on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @01:14PM (#23237353)
Exactly. I cannot understand how this can’t be the user’s choice.
Re:Notion for everyone by terpimost on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @01:31PM (#23237600)
Search is a problem. Index is available to a saas provider.
Re:Notion for everyone by eddieroger on Wednesday May 20, 2020 @09:06AM (#23246375)
1Password figured it out, and even wrote a paper about it. So it's a solvable problem. They even figured out a good model for helping recover lost passwords when my family members forget it.

https://1password.com/files/1Password-White-Paper.pdf

Don't work for Agile Bits, but have used 1P for a long time and couldn't live without it.

Re:Notion for everyone by drukenemo on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @01:17PM (#23237393)
Much more critical (imo) software such as Backblaze offers full encryption, it’s the user choice and responsibility. That’s what privacy is also about.
Re:Notion for everyone by fomine3 on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @08:44PM (#23242132)
We can't compare how storage service implements E2E encryption for multi-functional note service.
Re:Notion for everyone by xet7 on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @06:32PM (#23241076)
Maybe it's not easy to have client side encryption, but it seems CryptPad has it:

https://cryptpad.fr

https://github.com/xwiki-labs/cryptpad

Re:Notion for everyone by franky47 on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @04:58PM (#23240113)
The idea is not to move the password, or any derived key, but the clear-text data. GDPR and other laws enforce that you give customers the right to access their data (in clear text), if possible in an interoperable form. Notion does so in CSV and Markdown, which is good enough to transfer to another service.