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Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by AGulev on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @07:47AM (#23233781)
The only one restriction: you can't sell the engine itself! You can sell the game made with Defold. You don't understand something or you are misleading people.
Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by MaxBarraclough on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @10:32AM (#23235281)
No, they are correct. 'Open Source' is a term-of-art in the software world. We use the OSI's definition, which is a good deal stricter than just making the source available. The licence used by Defold is not an Open Source licence.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23233336 , https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23235217

Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by vonmoltke on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @12:03PM (#23236375)
vertex-four is correct that Defold is not Open Source. This statement, however, is absolutely wrong:

> Defold allows you to see the internals, but if something doesn't work the way you want, you can't change it and still get to sell your game.

Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by MaxBarraclough on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @12:22PM (#23236672)
I think you're right. Their summary says:

> You are free to modify Defold and you are not required to share the changes

but also:

> You can not commercialise original or modified (derivative) versions of the Defold editor and/or engine

I think they mean you cannot start a business selling your fork of their game-engine. I don't think they mean you may not use a modified engine in a commercial product. This seems to fit with the full text of the licence, which says:

> You do not sell or otherwise commercialise the Work or Derivative Works as a Game Engine Product

Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by nybble41 on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @03:15PM (#23238891)
I think it would be pretty hard to distinguish between commercializing a game with a modified Defold engine which can be heavily modded by the player and commercializing a modified Defold game engine. Quite a few games have been modded into entirely different games sharing only the engine.

Just something to think about if you were planning on allowing mods in your game. Do they only care about how you advertise the product, or will they be looking at how it's actually being used?

Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by MaxBarraclough on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @05:56PM (#23240776)
Interesting point. That's different from typical moddable commercial game/game engine.

Typically, people may buy a game in order to play its free mods, but you can't tweak the engine and then sell that modified engine to other game studios. Whatever happens, the end-user has to have a licence for the original game.

This is a little different though, as you can modify the engine, then sell your game, and permit payware mods to use your modified version of the engine, perhaps even insisting on taking a cut. All the while the Defold guys don't get a penny.

Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by mindcrime on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @10:55AM (#23235529)
Their license, as currently stated, would probably violate both planks 1 and 6 of the OSD[1].

[1]: https://opensource.org/osd-annotated

Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by vonmoltke on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @12:00PM (#23236339)
It violates #1. I see no violation of #6.
Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by nybble41 on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @03:19PM (#23238945)
#1 is freedom to redistribute the original software, alone or in aggregate. I don't see how it violates that. #6 is freedom from discrimination regarding field of endeavour. Restrictions on commercial use (including exercise of the other freedoms in a commercial context, e.g. sale of modified versions) violate #6, not #1.
Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by mindcrime on Thursday May 21, 2020 @09:45AM (#23258247)
I think that's closer to the way I was reading it at first, but then I realized that #6 refers to use and not distribution. So I think (although, IANAL) that #6 is not about dealing with the commercial sales aspect. I think this is more for the kind of things like "You can use this software for anything except developing military weapons" or that sort of clause that you sometimes see.

#1 OTOH deals with "selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources." This would seem to be the clause that would be violated by a "you can't sell this commercially" clause. Although, looking at it, I just realized that somebody could argue that due to the use of the phrase "component of an aggregate software distribution", that this actually isn't violated by a restriction on selling the software alone! I'm pretty sure that's not the way that was ever intended to be interpreted though, and that an aggregate can include as few as 1 components. Otherwise it would be silly, because you could always then in turn create an "aggregate" by adding some arbitrary files of your own.

Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by nybble41 on Thursday May 21, 2020 @11:25AM (#23259520)
#1 only applies to aggregate distributions "containing programs from several different sources". As such it clearly would not apply to distributing a single program. One program by itself is not an aggregate as the term is commonly used and certainly does not contain programs from several different sources.

#6 is titled "No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavour" and explicitly refers to commercial use as a field of endeavour. The annotated version[1] says:

> Rationale: The major intention of this clause is to prohibit license traps that prevent open source from being used commercially. We want commercial users to join our community, not feel excluded from it.

Restricting commercial distribution of modified versions would discriminate against commercial users. I argue that the word "use" in this context is referring not only to running the program but to the exercise of any of the freedoms outlined in the Open Source Definition.

[1] https://opensource.org/osd-annotated

Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by mindcrime on Thursday May 28, 2020 @03:27PM (#23341380)
Restricting commercial distribution of modified versions would discriminate against commercial users.

That depends on whether or not "use" and "distribute" are seen as two completely different "things", or whether distribution is a subtype of usage. It makes more sense, to me, for it to be the latter - but the actual text of the OSD is a little bit ambiguous on that point. At least to my reading.

Still, regardless of how one justifies it, I feel like it's pretty well accepted that a "you can't sell this commercially" clause in a license makes it non-OSD compliant. As it should be.

Re:Defold game engine source now available and free to use f... by mindcrime on Tuesday May 19, 2020 @01:53PM (#23237936)
Upon further review, I believe you are correct.