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Re:Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same ... by lgas on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @04:24AM (#23151697)
I would recommend Gödel, Escher, Bach by Douglas Hofstadter if you haven't already read it.
Re:Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same ... by braythwayt on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @08:47AM (#23153350)
I am of the generation that fixated upon GEB as some sort of deep wisdom, and I have a nostalgic fondness for it. I certainly credit it for sparking a lot of my curiosity about Lisp.

But in hindsight, its value to me was not in the content of the book, as much as in communicating the kind of delight and curiosity around programming that has kept me interested in the subject since 1972 or so.

Other books have done the same thing for me, most notably everything by Martin Gardner, Raymond Smullyan's books about logic puzzles that sneak an education past you, and William Poundstone's books about Game Theory and Computability.

In a way, I'm delighted that this book is not sitting as the number one thread so far. Not because it's terrible, but because new generations ahve written great books, and they deserve mention too.

Re:Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same ... by AQuantized on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @09:11AM (#23153562)
It's interesting that despite Hofstadter having negative interest in computing himself, he inspired so many people in the field.
Re:Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same ... by braythwayt on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @09:34AM (#23153782)
I was aware of this many years ago. To this day, I don't actually consider myself that interested in computing for its own sake. Or mathematics, for that matter.

To me, the most interesting thing about programming is what it teaches us about our own minds. It's a little like being an archeologist and finding collections of pottery, houses, &c. but no people. You make deductions about how they lived from their tools.

In our case, we have only a limited ability to directly examine the workings of our brains, but a wealth of ways to study the things we do with our brains, including the making of tools for our brains to use.

Programming is one of those tools, and its study is indirectly the study of us.

At the end of the day, it's all just 1s and 0s, but when we argue about whether the Visitor Pattern addresses the Expression problem, and so forth, we're indirectly exploring the (metaphorical) shape of our brains.

I have just said in several paragraphs what Michael Fellows said in one sentence: "Computer science is not about machines, in the same way that astronomy is not about telescopes."

They may have been thinking about mathematics, but I am thinking about people.

Re:Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same ... by ludami on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @09:44AM (#23153890)
This is one of the few books I've read that I would actually call 'mind bending' (though stretching might be a better word).

Another amazing book of his that I don't see mentioned a lot (perhaps because it is more technical that maybe any of his other books) is 'Fluid Concepts And Creative Analogies'.

Re:Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same ... by mindcrime on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @10:30AM (#23154369)
Another amazing book of his that I don't see mentioned a lot (perhaps because it is more technical that maybe any of his other books) is 'Fluid Concepts And Creative Analogies'.

I'm reading that one now. I recommend it, along with Perception as Analogy by Melanie Mitchell, and the aforementioned Godel, Escher, Bach to anyone interested in AI / cognitive science. I've only read a small part of Metamagical Themas to date, but I've read enough to recommend that as well. Just the stuff on self-referential sentences makes it worth reading.

Re:Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same ... by mindcrime on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @12:54PM (#23156250)
Derp, derp... I meant to write "Analogy-Making as Perception by Melanie Mitchell". I blame lack of coffee.
Re:Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same ... by bobosha on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @04:27AM (#23151715)
TBH I have attempted to read it many times but escapes my feeble mind. GEB is one of those books ...
Re:Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same ... by maurits on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @05:04AM (#23151941)
You could have a look at 'The Mind's I' [1]. Its a collection of short essays edited by Hofstadter and Dennett.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mind%27s_I

Re:Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same ... by fit2rule on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @04:45AM (#23151824)
I always find that the best way to get something out of GEB, which I have consumed a thousand times, is to read it backwards.

;)

Re:Ask HN: Mind bending books to read and never be the same ... by mindcrime on Tuesday May 12, 2020 @01:00PM (#23156329)
What helped me get through it was consciously reminding myself "It's OK if I don't grok every single thing in this book this time through. I can always read it again. And again, etc." In other words, I didn't try to read it like a traditional textbook (which it really isn't) where everything is strictly factual, and laid out in a nice, linear, straightforward order. I found that I just had to accept that GEB is non-linear, byzantine, self-referential, and frankly confusing at times. Instead of being blocked when I felt confused, I just kept reading.

Did I get everything out of it that Hofstadter intended to put in? Almost certainly not, but I still got quite a bit of out it, IMO. And I can always go back and re-read it.