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Re:Wikipedia-IPFS: An exploration to host Wikipedia in IPFS by GekkePrutser on Saturday May 09, 2020 @09:22PM (#23129582)
I hadn't heard much about IPFS but the way this is built, with the immutability and hash keys etc, sounds very much like FreeNet. That's the first thing I thought of, and predates this by about 20 years. I remember when that promised to be the next big thing and save us from the commercialisation of the internet that was in full swing then.

Unfortunately, that didn't turn out very well. Let's just say the 'fringes of free speech' took the upper hand and really started defining the platform in the public view, to the point of being strongly associated with the platform. Why would you run a node if it was mainly used for horrible stuff. Same as what happened to tor services, but to a bigger extent.

I really believe in the idea freedom of speech. But some kind of control is unfortunately needed. Otherwise a platform like this will always spiral out of control and kill itself. I think it's one of those things that sounds great in theory but doesn't work in real life.

Perhaps some kind of user voting could be implemented, but it would be extremely slow, too slow to catch up with new content being published. It's a very hard thing to tackle. Free speech is unfortunately not as black and white as its advocates like to see it.

Re:Wikipedia-IPFS: An exploration to host Wikipedia in IPFS by AgentME on Sunday May 10, 2020 @12:18AM (#23130241)
I think comparisons to FreeNet are misleading, because IPFS doesn't let you publish content to other people's nodes, and it doesn't try to provide any way to browse content in IPFS. It's more like torrents, if torrent applications were tuned to serve content to web browsers quickly.

It seems like every single thread about IPFS on HN has several people asking "what happens if you run an IPFS node and a random person online puts something illegal on it?", and that's just not a thing that happens with IPFS.

Re:Wikipedia-IPFS: An exploration to host Wikipedia in IPFS by tal8d on Saturday May 09, 2020 @11:37PM (#23130109)
> Let's just say the 'fringes of free speech' took the upper hand...

Luckily for you that blurry line between mainstream and "fringe" is rapidly shifting, and the list of permissible opinions continues to shrink. More and more people will be forced to decide how important guilt by association is to them, and will either make use of the stigmatized tech - or simply shutup.

> But some kind of control is unfortunately needed.

To what end? Are we protecting the children? Are we preventing the rise of Turbo-Hitler?

> Otherwise a platform like this will always spiral out of control and kill itself.

How do you imagine that happens? Shaming from people saying exactly what you have just said, leading to reduced uptake, justifying censorship - because only bad people use the dark web.

Here is a clue: look at what has happened to lesbians, they are already going through this. I know this because I frequent a thoroughly demonized site run by a free-speech absolutist (well, almost). One day a whole bunch of these women showed up to complain about some insane pre-op transsexual who had succeeded in getting them censored on every major platform. These ladies absolutely hated the site and everyone on it, but they had no alternative.

Re:Wikipedia-IPFS: An exploration to host Wikipedia in IPFS by GekkePrutser on Monday May 11, 2020 @03:17AM (#23139641)
Well, the problem with providing a platform for truly free speech is that there's always someone ready to find that extreme niche that is really not acceptable to even the staunchest free-speech advocate. As you say, the 'almost' is an important thing. As soon as you permit everything, someone crazy will find that niche and start overflowing your platform with it because they have nowhere else to go.

I'm not doing the demonizing, just pointing out that this inevitably happens.

PS: Who's against lesbians??? I'm pretty sure they are by law protected against discrimination, including the US?

Re:Wikipedia-IPFS: An exploration to host Wikipedia in IPFS by tal8d on Monday May 11, 2020 @08:10AM (#23141237)
The problem is one of the platforms' own making, because they want the legal protection of being a platform in addition to the commercial benefits of being a publisher. This has been allowed to happen despite the fact that such aggressive "content curation" clearly makes the likes of Twitter and Youtube publishers. That should come at the cost of safe harbor protections. A platform's only duty, with regard to the policing of speech, is in cases of copyright violation and court orders; as you can imagine, adherence to the law would make it difficult to control political narratives and sell laundry detergent ad space. The "almost" aspect is more to do with ambiguities in the laws themselves, as well as untested and conflicting international laws.

The solution is very simple: enforce the law, force the choice between platform and publisher. If there truly is a need to curtail free speech on a legally protected platform - pass a law making that speech illegal. I'd be curious to see how many heads explode when people learn that "hate speech" is not illegal - and couldn't be made so in the US without hilarious consequences.

I'd rather not name the individual in Canada that was targeting women, but I will say this: some biologically born men have found an interesting loophole in both the political arguments and legal protections afforded on the basis of class and identity. Some lesbians were unimpressed with the idea that they had a moral obligation to grant equal sexual preference to both biologically born women and biologically born men who declared themselves to be women. This is something that has been going on for a while now, and nobody is really allowed to talk about it - because "hate speech".

Re:Wikipedia-IPFS: An exploration to host Wikipedia in IPFS by bawolff on Sunday May 10, 2020 @02:44AM (#23130762)
Freenet and IPFS are both content addressable retrieval systems, so they are similar in that way. However otherwise they are very different and there have been many other systems based on the idea of addressing things by hash. BitTorrent and DHT are two very notable systems of that type, and unlike freenet they are known for their speed. They are also known for people getting sued for piracy. I dont think the comparison between freenet and ipfs is very illuminating