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Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by bob1029 on Saturday May 09, 2020 @11:35AM (#23125565)
I would certainly include software in that same bucket. Not only would other fields be better served with more attention, but taking some of the noise out of these arguably over-crowded professions might allow for more innovation to take place within them.

With software specifically, it feels very much like a case of too many chefs in the kitchen at this point. Just look at facebook trying to build one website with 10000 engineers. It's some of the most ridiculous bullshit and it's incredibly distracting even as an outside observer. There are clean and reusable patterns that solve problems for 99.9% of use cases, but most of the discussion and energy these days is spent rehashing the same boring front-end UI story over and over and over.

Sure, I can ignore all the noise on HN, et. al. if I want to get work done, but then I risk missing out on the occasional insight that can potentially give me an integer factor increase in productivity or product quality. As it currently stands, I have to wade through a cesspool of the same boring amateur concepts on a daily basis in order to find the rare fundamental insights that meaningfully move the state of the art forward.

Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by fsociety on Saturday May 09, 2020 @02:54PM (#23127382)
Ha right this is very meme worthy and often repeated here. Facebook has 10K engineers working on a site and all of that effort is wasted and represents a huge failure of effort.

Same thing for Twitter and all these other social media sites. How does Google have so many engineers yet so many failed products? It’s a narrow perspective to take on and a wrong one.

Actually the division of labour at large companies is impressive and it becomes apparent if you look at the amount of actual output from them.

These FAANG companies aren’t just building websites. They are managing larges amounts of complex infrastructure, because scaling the amount of engineers a company can have requires it.

They are designing incredibly complex products. Apple’s products are descriptively simple and don’t represent the amount of work required to get there.

They are maintaining and insane amount of code and ensuring it works reliably. It’s easy to point at the one day with the Google Maps SDK failure or the Facebook SDK failure while forgetting the many days there wasn’t one.

Lately they are investing in privacy and security, which is another huge effort that I think the public underestimates. It’s easy to ensure data is deleted in a database, but it’s a completely different problem to ensure that data is deleted across all your infrastructure and to ensure it stays that way while teams rapidly develop software.

Startups and smaller companies can compete with large behemoths because they are only focusing on one or two things (or should be). But when you focus on one thing you lose sight of how hard it is to focus on one thousand things.

Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by ragebol on Saturday May 09, 2020 @05:28PM (#23128442)
In the end, Both Google and Facebook are ad companies. All the complexity, infrastructure etc is for that purpose. What if all that talent focused on something more worthwhile?

Sure,they do some other cool stuff, are useful in other ways, but on the side really.

Same af really smart folks working in high frequency trading. Also wasted talent IMO

Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by sakagami0 on Sunday May 10, 2020 @10:44AM (#23132997)
Id switch to something else it pays more.
Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by Chyzwar on Saturday May 09, 2020 @12:52PM (#23126266)
> With software specifically, it feels very much like a case of too many chefs in the kitchen at this point. Just look at facebook trying to build one website with 10000 engineers. It's some of the most ridiculous bullshit and it's incredibly distracting even as an outside observer. There are clean and reusable patterns that solve problems for 99.9% of use cases, but most of the discussion and energy these days is spent rehashing the same boring front-end UI story over and over and over.

This single website is making billions of dollars in profits and used billions daily. It is good for us that Facebook have 10000 people working on this. Thanks to Facebook we have now flow, react, react-native, GraphQL, Redux, immutable.js, ReasonML, jest and create-react-app just to mention few things that were open sourced or worked by people hired by Facebook. No other company contributed as much to "boring front-end UI story"

Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by tarsinge on Saturday May 09, 2020 @01:54PM (#23126849)
> Thanks to Facebook we have now flow, react, react-native, GraphQL, Redux, immutable.js, ReasonML, jest and create-react-app

The added value of all of that is dubious when you see the result from the creators themselves. The analogy "too many chefs in the kitchen" is pretty spot on. The front-end UI is not the back-end, it doesn't scale with the number of users, so when too many smart engineers work on it you see the result.

Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by Chyzwar on Saturday May 09, 2020 @02:32PM (#23127226)
The result is an extremely successful company.
Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by tarsinge on Saturday May 09, 2020 @02:58PM (#23127413)
We are talking specifically about the front-end, it was already successful in 2012 with basic AJAX and vanilla JS.
Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by nine_k on Saturday May 09, 2020 @10:41PM (#23129907)
Successful it might have been, but I heard it was a sea of pain to support and develop.

One-way bindings and isolation of effects help a lot.

Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by justapassenger on Saturday May 09, 2020 @04:09PM (#23127891)
Usenet was also already successful in the 80s.
Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by tarsinge on Saturday May 09, 2020 @06:32PM (#23128811)
Come on we are talking 2012, have a look at its history, nearly all major features already existed at the time. Of course the UI would be a bit dated but it’s irrelevant as it has nothing to do with the JS tooling.
Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by seba_dos1 on Saturday May 09, 2020 @02:54PM (#23127385)
...built on extremely unethical grounds. 10000 engineers working on it are the symptom, not the cause.
Re:Elon Musk: ‘Too many smart people go into finance and law’ by wolfgke on Saturday May 09, 2020 @03:22PM (#23127577)
> Just look at facebook trying to build one website with 10000 engineers.

Keep in mind that most most these engineers are paid for the fact that they don't work for another company that is perhaps competing with Facebook. They are given "sensible-looking" work to make them feel important and keep them busy (feel free to call this a "bullshit job" (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bullshit_Jobs&old... ) if you desire).