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Re:Finnish basic income pilot improved wellbeing, study finds by nicbou on Thursday May 07, 2020 @07:11PM (#23109462)
> Our welfare system is largely unconditional.

ALG II is pretty far from unconditional. You only get it after you burn through all your savings, and it forces you to look for work. TV costs 17€ a month per household even if you don't have a TV. Health insurance is pretty far from free, though it matches your income.

Don't get me wrong, it's generally a pretty good system, but it's not unconditional.

Re:Finnish basic income pilot improved wellbeing, study finds by luckylion on Friday May 08, 2020 @02:21AM (#23111944)
> it forces you to look for work

Yes, in a theoretic sense. Not practically, it does not run out and you have to be pretty combative and purposefully i-wont-work to be sanctioned.

> TV costs 17€ a month per household even if you don't have a TV

Which is waived for anyone on social benefits.

> Health insurance is pretty far from free

It is for anyone on social benefits, paid by taxing those that work.

Re:Finnish basic income pilot improved wellbeing, study finds by nicbou on Friday May 08, 2020 @02:42AM (#23112037)
Again, those social benefits only kick in after you have burned through your life savings, including your retirement savings. If you are on ALG II, you don't have so much left. You are also expected to report to the job center, and act on the help they provide you.

It's not just "stop working, get free things".

If you are not a citizen, it's also going to ensure your visa doesn't get renewed. The government had to make an exception this time for COVID-19.

Re:Finnish basic income pilot improved wellbeing, study finds by luckylion on Friday May 08, 2020 @04:34AM (#23112673)
Yes, as I wrote, you're expected to find a job, but it's not like they'll toss you a broom stick and tell you to start sweeping.

As for savings: true, but less relevant. With a high net wealth you're already free to do whatever you like. 41% of Germans have less than $10.000 in personal wealth, which will be pretty much the so called Schonvermögen (which you do not need to touch to be eligible for Hartz-4; retirement savings are not taken into account for this, and only applied to private retirement savings, while the super majority relies on the public retirement system in Germany).

So yeah, it's not "stop working, get free things", but it's pretty close to it. Close enough that we should see all the huge benefits that are promised by UBI proponents. But we don't.

> If you are not a citizen, it's also going to ensure your visa doesn't get renewed.

That's not accurate. About 2 million non-citizens are receiving Hartz-4 benefits, the trend is pointing upwards, it does not affect their legal status.