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Re:Ask HN: Is your company sticking to on-premise servers? Why? by biztos on Thursday May 07, 2020 @12:16AM (#23099669)
I hope so too, but it's not like a fleet of fine-tuned EC2 instances running CentOS 6.5 is going to be patched and rebooted regularly without a similar amount of sysadmin attention.

(Not picking on CentOS, just using it as a placeholder for $REQUIRED_OS_BECAUSE_OF_CUSTOM_SOFTWARE.)

Re:Ask HN: Is your company sticking to on-premise servers? Why? by close04 on Thursday May 07, 2020 @06:42AM (#23101557)
The main difference is in admin effort even with the same amount of automation. It doesn't scale linearly because of economy of scales. With reasonable automation a relatively small team can handle a pretty large cloud fleet. For smaller on-prem fleets the scale down might not be ideal though.
Re:Ask HN: Is your company sticking to on-premise servers? Why? by mr_toad on Thursday May 07, 2020 @01:28AM (#23100004)
Automatic unattended updates are totally possible (I haven’t tried it in CentOS but it works fine on Ubuntu). Even kernel updates can now be done without a reboot. And with the proper setup even reboots can be automated.
Re:Ask HN: Is your company sticking to on-premise servers? Why? by mrweasel on Thursday May 07, 2020 @04:06AM (#23100824)
But that's not limited to cloud, you can do that for on-premise stuff.
Re:Ask HN: Is your company sticking to on-premise servers? Why? by twic on Thursday May 07, 2020 @06:11AM (#23101396)
There's a cognitive failure i see a lot where people incorrectly conflate two different new hotnesses like this.

Cloud? Automatically updating operating systems. On-prem? Must be stuck on an old version.

Microservices? You can release to production in minutes. Monolith? Must take you weeks to get a release out.

Go? Simple self-contained deployables. Java? Must need a JDK and Tomcat installed on the server.

It always seem to come up when the leading term is something dubious (cloud, microservices, Go), but the following term is something unequivocally good. Or maybe that's just when i notice it.

Re:Ask HN: Is your company sticking to on-premise servers? Why? by m01 on Thursday May 07, 2020 @07:20AM (#23101747)
How do you do kernel updates without a reboot?

I've looked several times and found different technologies over time (kexec, (Oracle's) ksplice, kGraft, kpatch, livepatch). They do appear to have some use-cases, e.g. delaying the need for a reboot by being able to install a critical vulnerability fix/workaround so that the reboot can be done at a more convenient time. Because many of the patch mechanisms are function-based, they don't appear to solve the general problem in such a way that reboots can be avoided all together for arbitrary large kernel changes. From my reading of the solutions none are at the level of unattended upgrades using apt/yum-cron or similar in a way that "most" can benefit from them without worrying too much about it (ksplice might do it, but not sure how much you need to pay for it for server use and therefore how accessible it is). kexec helps with skipping the bootloader/BIOS, but I'm not sure if it ends up restaring all the systemd services or going up/down the runlevels, some places suggest it reduces downtime but doesn't eliminate it. I've not experimented with any of these myself yet... so I'd be happy to be proven wrong and in any case learn more!

References:

- http://jensd.be/651/linux/linux-live-kernel-patching-with-kp...

- https://linux-audit.com/livepatch-linux-kernel-updates-witho...

- https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Kernel_live_patching

- https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Kexec

EDIT: forgot to mention livepatch

Re:Ask HN: Is your company sticking to on-premise servers? Why? by heavenlyblue on Thursday May 07, 2020 @06:39PM (#23109196)
You don’t need to avoid reboot if you have enough machines
Re:Ask HN: Is your company sticking to on-premise servers? Why? by Conan_Kudo on Thursday May 07, 2020 @06:25AM (#23101476)
This is totally possible on CentOS. Up to CentOS 7, yum-cron lets you do this. With CentOS 8, this has been replaced with dnf-automatic, which offers a lot more flexibility on how to configure automatic updates.