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Re:Bye, Amazon by o10449366 on Monday May 04, 2020 @02:16PM (#23071412)
Which warehouses are "sweat shop" level?
Re:Bye, Amazon by three_seagrass on Monday May 04, 2020 @02:44PM (#23071723)
https://nypost.com/2019/11/30/amazon-warehouses-are-cult-lik...

>I soon learned that only difference between an Amazon warehouse and a third-world sweatshop were the robots. At Amazon, you were surrounded by bots, and they were treated better than the humans.

Re:Bye, Amazon by o10449366 on Monday May 04, 2020 @03:04PM (#23071958)
Are there 3rd world sweatshops that pay $16 USD/hour and provide benefits? I'd wager there are a few more differences than just the robots.
Re:Bye, Amazon by three_seagrass on Monday May 04, 2020 @03:08PM (#23072005)
This is a No-True Scotsman. You asked for examples of Amazon sweatshop conditions, and once given, you're now redefining the semantics of 'true' sweatshops to being both in the third world and making less than $16/hour.
Re:Bye, Amazon by pathseeker on Monday May 04, 2020 @03:10PM (#23072046)
No it's not. The very definition of sweatshop implies very low wages and long hours.
Re:Bye, Amazon by three_seagrass on Monday May 04, 2020 @03:26PM (#23072236)
According to Wikipedia, a sweatshop is semantically a workplace with very poor, socially unacceptable or illegal working conditions. The work may be difficult, dangerous, climatically challenging or underpaid. It's true that workers in sweatshops may work long hours with low pay, but it's not limited to that.

If you read the article with the example that was asked for, you'd see the examples of how it's sweatshop conditions.

Re:Bye, Amazon by adamweld on Monday May 04, 2020 @03:44PM (#23072432)
I read through the article, I don't really see how it fits that definition.

Long shifts on your feet, physical labor, short breaks and no cell phones. Precise tracking of performance. Does it sound like fun? Hell no. But it seems like decent pay for unskilled physical labor, and I haven't read anything that sounds like sweatshop conditions.

Re:Bye, Amazon by memonkey on Monday May 04, 2020 @04:51PM (#23073102)
The idea that physical labor being unskilled work has been perpetuated for thousands of years in class based systems despite the fact that any kind of work can involve both physical and intellectual skill. If you've ever worked in a warehouse, you would know that there are plenty of skills to learn and refine.
Re:Bye, Amazon by three_seagrass on Monday May 04, 2020 @04:14PM (#23072735)
12 hour shifts on your feet with no access to chairs, consistent 150 F work conditions, 30 minute lunch breaks that take 30 minutes to get to, no paid bathroom breaks, etc. are a few of the examples from this one article alone that are in line with the semantics of sweatshop conditions.
Re:Bye, Amazon by 300bps on Monday May 04, 2020 @04:43PM (#23073018)
consistent 150 F work conditions

If she told you there were sharks with lasers on their heads would you have believed that too? The article is literally unbelievable.

Re:Bye, Amazon by three_seagrass on Monday May 04, 2020 @05:07PM (#23073261)
No, but if multiple workers at multiple locations said the same thing, then it is more believable:

>"I was really upset and I said, 'All you people care about is the rates, not the well-being of the people,' " she said. "I've never worked for an employer that had paramedics waiting outside for people to drop because of the extreme heat."

There were so many reports of workers overheating that OSHA had to get involved: https://www.mcall.com/news/watchdog/mc-allentown-amazon-comp...

That, along with other conditions reported, make it a literal sweatshop.

Re:Bye, Amazon by uoaei on Monday May 04, 2020 @06:08PM (#23073941)
$16/hr is decent pay in those conditions?

They risk bringing the coronavirus home every day to their families. Their bodies are chewed up over the course of months until they start falling apart from the stress and wear. "short breaks" usually means something like "you're only allowed to go to the bathroom twice" which is technically illegal but Amazon spent a lot of money asking consultants and lawyers how to circumvent that.

Not to mention they don't get paid while they're standing in line for 20+ minutes to get frisked before they leave.

Re:Bye, Amazon by mkolodny on Monday May 04, 2020 @03:59PM (#23072596)
Here are a few examples of "sweatshop" conditions in the Amazon factory from the article:

- No chairs for a 12-hour shift

- Time spent going to the bathroom gets removed from your break time

- 30-minute lunch includes a 30-minute round trip to get to the lunch room

Re:Bye, Amazon by 300bps on Monday May 04, 2020 @04:41PM (#23073002)
Everyone looks at it through their own lens. To an employee that goes to the bathroom twice per day at work, monitoring bathroom break time sounds ludicrous. But what should Amazon do with people who want to take 20 ten minute bathroom breaks per day? The answer is you set a policy that everyone is equal under and stock to it.

Other things seemed like unrealistic exaggerations. Like a 15 minute walk to the lunch room and barely having enough time to eat a sandwich, drink a soda and smoke a cigarette during the 30 minute break. Doesn’t add up.

And stating it felt like 150 degrees and no fans were allowed because “robots don’t like the cold”. What robot works better in 150 degrees than 70 degrees?

The stories don’t ring true to me and the pictures through the article from labor organizers tell me at least why the stories are being told.

Re:Bye, Amazon by grawprog on Monday May 04, 2020 @06:38PM (#23074200)
I'm not sure about Amazon exactly but 30 minute lunches with barely enough time to eat is pretty realistic. There's many places where lunches are from buzzer to buzzer period, whether you've eaten or not. If these places are large enough, and it seems they're pretty large, then yeah, every minute you've got to walk to your food is a minute taken off your lunch break.
Re:Bye, Amazon by amiga_500 on Monday May 04, 2020 @04:18PM (#23072775)
Rent is different in different countries. You cannot just quote $$
Re:Bye, Amazon by SamWhited on Monday May 04, 2020 @02:40PM (#23071670)
The ones that have been in the news for years for being sweat shop level. The ones that 60 Minutes did an exposition on, and that activists have been trying to draw attention to. I don't understand what you want by asking this question, an address?
Re:Bye, Amazon by dessant on Monday May 04, 2020 @02:39PM (#23071665)
I think all of them, given that workers are severely underpaid compared to the value they provide, and have no means to influence the future of the company, other than to speak up and be fired.

Though it's possible that the parent was referring to Amazon warehouses where workers had to pee in a bottle to keep their productivity points above the cutoff level.

Re:Bye, Amazon by 0xy on Monday May 04, 2020 @02:52PM (#23071825)
They're paid at the level they will accept for the job they provide. Amazon couldn't hire 100,000 people in a month if they were underpaying anyone.

Also, why should they have means to influence the future of the company? They're hired voluntarily to do one job, not to lead the company.

Re:Bye, Amazon by klyrs on Monday May 04, 2020 @03:09PM (#23072029)
Hiring 100k people a month is only half the picture. Their turnover rate is absurd, and folks wouldn't be quitting in droves if they were paying adequately to compensate for the working conditions.

Why should they have means to influence the future of the company? That's been repeatedly proven in court and enshrined in law.

Re:Bye, Amazon by dessant on Monday May 04, 2020 @03:05PM (#23071974)
They accept the job because they need it to survive, but that does not mean they are happy with what they're paid, see all the crushed unionization attempts. Nor does it mean that the company cannot afford to pay them more and still make a nice profit, just because they'd also work for less.

Yes, workers should be able to influence the future of a company they invest their lives in, the same way citizens can influence the future of their countries. The incentives of workers and shareholders can be aligned, when greed is kept in check.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/14/politics/bernie-sanders-w...

Re:Bye, Amazon by 0xy on Monday May 04, 2020 @03:34PM (#23072330)
Why should a worker who voluntarily accepts a contract be allowed to renege on that contract and suddenly have control of other people's property?
Re:Bye, Amazon by wins32767 on Monday May 04, 2020 @04:29PM (#23072886)
Because contracts aren't the highest form of value, they are just a construct we agree to follow as a tool to help create a society that aligns to our values? If contracts are creating results that are not aligned with our values as a society, we should be willing to modify them or do away with the concept of a contract entirely if that allows us to get to a better outcome that we collectively agree upon.
Re:Bye, Amazon by 0xy on Monday May 04, 2020 @04:37PM (#23072962)
Seems to me like this ideology was soundly rejected twice by an extremely large margin in Sanders' losses in 2016 and 2020. I don't think the country wants to eliminate the idea of a voluntary contract as you suggest.
Re:Bye, Amazon by wins32767 on Monday May 04, 2020 @05:08PM (#23073267)
It's not an ideology that I'm expressing, it's the opposite. We shouldn't be bound by ideology in trying to find solutions to social problems, but be willing propose major changes to fix badly broken systems. A big part of the problem the US has is that it's become a norm to view any proposal through the lens of ones own ideologies or the assumed ideologies of ones interlocutor and dismissing it on the basis of improper ideology rather than proposing an alternate solution.
Re:Bye, Amazon by 0xy on Monday May 04, 2020 @06:01PM (#23073850)
It's a solution to a non-existent problem. Nobody in the country wants to end voluntary contracts as you suggest.

You want people to be able to renege on contracts they explicitly agreed to under no duress. This position is not supported by the country and has been rejected countless times. Even unionism as a whole has been rejected. I would not join a union even if it was free, absolutely never.

Re:Bye, Amazon by dessant on Tuesday May 05, 2020 @01:33AM (#23076829)
Why wouldn't you join an union? What's wrong with them?