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Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by wpietri on Sunday May 03, 2020 @10:59AM (#23059386)
> No! We need to demand more from Google (or, at least our lawmakers) [...] a fair "trial" of my account being suspended.

I wouldn't hold my breath. I encourage people to put their money where their mouth is. E.g., I host my email with Fastmail.com. is that free? No, and thank goodness.

Google's core business is selling your eyeballs to people who want to influence you. Their relationship to eyeball owners is statistical; as long as they are providing adequate quantities of wallet-connected eyeballs to the highest bidder, they do fine. This drives a fundamentally different culture than businesses that live and die by customer relationships. And culture is extremely hard to change.

I don't know Google's numbers offhand, but Twitter's revenue is about $1 per eyeball-pair per month, with per-user profit much lower. Think about your salary, and then think about how much work you'd be willing to do for a given account. By my numbers, handling one medium-sized customer service issue could easily wipe out an entire lifetime of profit.

And that's before we even get into the literal millions of scammers, jerks, loons, and mafiosi that would a) happily misuse a Google account, and b) will eagerly waste hours of customer service time lying up a storm. Every extra inch Google gives an actual well-intentioned user means a few hundred miles taken up by that lot. Which is expensive indeed.

So I am entirely grateful that I'm paying Fastmail $50/account/year. That builds a culture of wanting each customer to succeed. Of wanting customers to say good things to potential customers. Which means if that there's some bump in the relationship, they're going to at least hear me out. If you too want that, please pay people money for services.

Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by dorgo on Sunday May 03, 2020 @02:55PM (#23061061)
Google (or Twitter) could offer on demand customer service. To open a ticket you pay $50. If you don't need customer service, you pay nothing.
Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by ocdtrekkie on Sunday May 03, 2020 @03:21PM (#23061188)
Provides a perverse incentive to offer bad products and not solve common problems. Unless they had a clear policy to refund the support cost if it was their fault.
Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by wpietri on Sunday May 03, 2020 @03:39PM (#23061293)
Totally. It's the customer service version of this: https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-11-13
Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by RandomBacon on Sunday May 03, 2020 @04:46PM (#23061719)
One of those fonts is not like the other. Is that something Yahoo did?
Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by wpietri on Sunday May 03, 2020 @05:01PM (#23061816)
Good question! I doubt it. Yahoo launched only 6 months before that comic strip was penned, and the number of daily internet users at the time was small. And their 1995 logo was... different: https://logos.fandom.com/wiki/Yahoo!
Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by Drdrdrq on Sunday May 03, 2020 @03:27PM (#23061216)
You can't change company culture that easily. Either user is the king or they are not - you can't have it both ways.
Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by Finnucane on Sunday May 03, 2020 @12:49PM (#23060156)
My personal email has been the same earthlink.net address for about 25 years now, and it’s been pretty worry-free in that time. My email client keeps all my email locally. I pay for service, I get that service. I guess it’s possible they’ll go out of business someday, but I’ll deal with it then. I don’t lose data over it.
Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by Pxtl on Sunday May 03, 2020 @07:06PM (#23062636)
How good is spam catching on those email providers? Because I'm disappointed as heck in my old Hotmail/Outlook account's spam catching, and if MS can't do it right what hope to smaller players have?
Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by wpietri on Monday May 04, 2020 @03:34PM (#23072324)
So far Fastmail has been quite good. My email address is ancient, so I get a ton of spam. (Over 99%, last I checked.) I see less spam with Fastmail than I did with my layered, carefully-tuned anti-spam filters.
Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by xvector on Sunday May 03, 2020 @03:29PM (#23061231)
> Their relationship to eyeball owners is statistical; as long as they are providing adequate quantities of wallet-connected eyeballs to the highest bidder, they do fine.

And people will leave Google for another free email service if even a small percent of people begin to lose their accounts.

Google definitely has an incentive to keep email functional.

Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by wpietri on Sunday May 03, 2020 @03:37PM (#23061281)
Again, it's statistical, not personal. I agree that if they get up to the level of, say, accidentally banning 1%, that might be a problem. Maybe not, though, as changing email providers is a giant pain. But if it's 0.1%? Or even 0.01% per year? People will write it off as anomalous and stay with Google. However, that's ~100k-1m people per year who get totally screwed.
Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by RandomBacon on Sunday May 03, 2020 @04:50PM (#23061751)
Me: 1k, oh well. 10k, glad it wasn't me. 100k? uh... I better look into back up solutions. 1m, I'm migrating now.

Average person: 1k, "what glitch?" 10k, "So what." 100k, "It didn't happen to me." 1m, "I don't use it for anything important anyway."

Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by xvector on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:20AM (#23068360)
But with services this big people don’t look at the percentages, they look at the hard numbers. It doesn’t matter if 1M people are <0.1% of Google’s user base - if they lose their data people will start migrating off, because that’s a scary number, and the media will report “1 MILLION people lost their accounts!”, not “0.1% of people lost their accounts.”
Re:What would you do if you lost your Google account? by wpietri on Monday May 04, 2020 @10:47AM (#23068692)
And how would people know?

Google has ~ 1.5 billion users. If something happens to 1 in 1000 people, then a) it won't happen to most people, b) most people won't know anybody it happened to, and c) maybe it happens to a friend of a friend. If they hear about it, they will likely say, "Oh, I'm sure there's a reason."

A reporter might hear stories about people who lose their accounts. They might even find those people. But so what? Right here in this discussion we're hearing those stories. Could this be happening to a million people across the globe per year? Sure. Does anybody know the true number? Nope.

So if you could discover the hard number (which you can't), maybe you could get a tech reporter to write about it. Then Google PR would go into action. They'd say correctly that it's a small fraction of their users, that keeping everyone safe is a difficult problem, and that they work hard to make sure everybody who should have access does, but sometimes people get swept up in Google's crime-fighting. All of which is true! Then they'll turn back on the accounts of the people the reporter actually talked to. PR will say that they've made process changes that have solved the problem, the reporter will include the happy endings, and that will be the end of it.

Just for comparison, tobacco kills about a half-million people a year in the US. It's totally unnecessary, but it's profitable for the tobacco companies. As long as it's killing somebody else, people are basically fine with it. If they can be chill about that, they will certainly be chill about you losing your Google account. They'll think you probably did something.