Jumping in here because of a pet peeve, since we're discussing "in the US" things. It blows my mind how people have fallen for the trick of not having sales tax included in discussed prices, and continue to exclude it as if magically someone else is going to pay it, or you don't have to work for that money. On expensive things like cars, it's a large chunk of change. Yes, it varies from state (and sometimes city) to state, but it should at the very least be discussed. That $16k Honda Fit in Los Angeles is going to cost you an additional $1520 in sales tax, real money that you really need to work for and be willing to part with to drive said Fit. If $16k is a problem to pay, that additional $1.5k in sales tax should be a concern to you as well. This is basically meant to mentally trick you into visualizing a lower price, and thinking "oh yea, that money goes to the state, not the merchant" as if, again, somehow that isn't real money _you_ have to part with. It's dishonest and can push some people into making bad financial decisions by treating the deal as if it's ~10% cheaper.

It would be great if we could start discussing real prices, maybe agree on an average sales tax rate which can be used in most discussions, with the understanding that it will vary a bit for you. Or maybe just add a 10% flat sales tax estimate, so that at least you know that most of the time you can expect to pay slightly _less_ than the discussed price, versus the unpleasant surprise of thousand(s) of additional $.

I agree and I wish there was a better solution. In the US you're paying sales tax with new cars as well as used so at least it's apples-to-apples in this conversation. And with cars it can vary sometimes where you purchase or where you live depending on your jurisdiction. I do think with a car thats something you need to shop around for.

I wish the US could suck it up and have correct price labelling. I don't care if they relabel products and it varies location to location or if the price is the same nationally and varying amounts get skimmed out (like credit card fees).

A new Honda Fit is $16k _before_ the dealer starts playing games.

Last time I went to buy one, the local Honda dealer tried to rig up a deal where a 2-yr-old model listed at $11k would cost me $19k. They were willing to budge on one of the $2k "mandatory" upgrades that weren't in their posted price, but I walked on the deal.

I think slightly older used cars can usually be had pretty reasonably though and can be a nice way to break out of the car loan cycle (if you can budget $1k cash for the likely event where there are hidden problems). The end of that story is that I bought a 10-yr-old Honda Fit for $5k, they didn't try any manipulative sales tactics, and 20k miles later I haven't had any notable issues (ran over a couple nails and needed to plug the tire). That's still a lot of money at minimum wage, but it's a lot more manageable than a new car.

I really hate the dealer game, but if you're stubborn and persistent you can often get what you want. It sounds like the best approach is to email multiple dealerships and make it clear you're only coming in after you commit to a price--you just can't overplay your hand. I bought a new Fit a few years ago when they shifted production between countries and kind of skipped a model year. So there was a shortage, especially the 6-speed low end. When I located one I didn't have much leverage to negotiate down, but I could stand firm on extra junk they tried to add to drive up the cost.

The used car market used to be fantastic before the 2009 Cash For Clunkers system seemed to have skewed it. It doesn't look like it has "recovered" but that could be due to other factors like better reliability overall. I mostly used a new car as a worst reasonable case scenario where the price doesn't fluctuate.

You’re paying a couple hundred a MONTH for collision alone? My entire insurance including collision and comprehensive is under $100/mo per car.

I haven't needed to look in years, but I'm pretty confident it was around that back then. This site [1] says the average is $596 for collision and $192 for comprehensive. So for a brand new car for someone in their 20s I don't think it would be too far out of line for what I would have paid--but wouldn't represent everyone.

[1] https://www.insurance.com/auto-insurance/coverage/comprehens...