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Re:New bill threatens journalists’ ability to protect sources by api on Friday May 01, 2020 @02:46PM (#23045235)
I've wondered for a long time whether the second amendment also has anything to say about cryptography.
Re:New bill threatens journalists’ ability to protect sources by munk-a on Friday May 01, 2020 @03:41PM (#23045746)
The second amendment has long been acknowledged to not allow blanket and unlimited access to weapons, the US Government could pretty trivially counter-argue that end-to-end encryption is military grade and beyond the needs of the consumers - if that tactic was taken it'd be difficult to defend the necessity of consumers to have access to that level of encryption in a technical manner that'd hold sway on the supreme court.

To be honest the second amendment, for all the out-sized media attention it receives - is a rather ineffective and unimportant portion of the Bill of Rights - falling quite far down any reasonable ranking.... Still more important than the third though - especially since the US routinely ignores the spirit of it.

That said amendments 1 & 4 are probably quite relevant, especially 4 - this law, while covering a novel subject not previously assumed, aims to specifically deprive persons of their rights to private communication including in cases where just cause cannot be established.

Re:New bill threatens journalists’ ability to protect sources by DFHippie on Friday May 01, 2020 @03:57PM (#23045910)
> To be honest the second amendment, for all the out-sized media attention it receives - is a rather ineffective and unimportant portion of the Bill of Rights - falling quite far down any reasonable ranking

Particularly since most of the US's peer countries manage to get along quite well without anything like it.

Re:New bill threatens journalists’ ability to protect sources by elliekelly on Friday May 01, 2020 @04:51PM (#23046346)
Why on earth is this downvoted?

There are many “freedom” indices[1] that measure the rights afforded to individuals in each country. These indices are published and maintained by groups all along the political spectrum. They all include things like due process and free speech but I’ve yet to come across one that gives weight to an individual’s access to weapons.

The “Human Freedom Index”[2] published by the ultra-libertarian Koch-funded Cato Institute doesn’t even include it.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices

[2] PDF page 24/numbered page 18 https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/human-fr...

Re:New bill threatens journalists’ ability to protect sources by nickff on Friday May 01, 2020 @05:07PM (#23046492)
The parent said "most of the US's peer countries manage to get along quite well without anything like it", which is a bit vague, but you have to think about how all the peer countries have done in the last 240 years. Remember that the USA's peers from 1776 weren't Sweden, Germany, and England, they would have been the Latin American countries, and other colonies like India. The USA has definitely done better than any of its peers from 1776.

The USA went from being a backwater that produced cotton and tobacco to being the pre-eminent global economic and military power, and it did this while avoiding totalitarianism and (devastating) war on the home front (i.e. WWi and WWii did little damage to the continental USA). Even the countries that started off far ahead of the USA (Germany, England, Sweden, etc.) have had much worse journeys over the past 240 years.

Re:New bill threatens journalists’ ability to protect sources by munk-a on Friday May 01, 2020 @07:12PM (#23047454)
I disagree with this on two major points:

I don't think that social evolution is an individual journey for countries. England as a nation might have a founding date around 927 though there have been some pretty major upheavals since then - it isn't fair to measure modern day America a success by comparing it to 1120 England - I think that as a global community all but the newest countries are on mostly even footing with those more aged and ancient countries being at someone of a disadvantage due to having much less solid bases in their constitutions/founding documents - more recent organized countries have been able to learn from history and create founding documents that allow them to have a more stable society... though many of those are in extremely volatile areas of the world.

Canada is like a hundred years younger than the US and doing a fair bit better and Australia founded a mere twelve years after the US is clearly within the peer range and is pretty close to the top of that list with New Zealand (founded slightly more recently than that in 1840 which puts it closer to US unification following the civil war) is usually really close to the top of most of these rankings.

Additionally, I'm not certain the validity of some of the points mentioned above:

In terms of the US's journey it gets the advantage of geography and the same advantage Canada and New Zealand received - it wasn't a theater of war during WWI & WWII, Australia actually suffered catastrophically during WWI with massive numbers of casualties received when participating in the Asia Minor theater (Gallipoli is part of the Australian cultural memory) and in WWII Papau New Guinea was a territory (albeit a relatively autonomous one) of Australia and was a heavily contested theater.

In terms of economy, the USA wasn't a cotton churning backwater on founding, it had a strong plantation based economy but as the world industrialized so did America. Britain & Germany definitely take the cake in terms of the most extreme economic transformations but America was on the upper end of the curve - it did quite well in industrialization building a strong power that it transformed into global power as the other colonial powers collapsed.

Lastly, I don't know if the US really is the pre-eminent power of the globe - certainly in terms of military it's on the top of the pile... but economically - dutch and british service industries move a lot of money around and, the ordering you didn't mention, quality of life for the citizenry, is one category America is really hurting in at this point with endemic obesity, poor healthcare and extremely poor education.

Re:New bill threatens journalists’ ability to protect sources by nickff on Friday May 01, 2020 @03:02PM (#23045399)
I have heard that argument made, but it seems to be a peculiar result of the government classifying private key encryption as a weapon to keep it secret during the cold war.

I think that the founding fathers would have believed people had a right to encryption, but that it was covered by the tenth amendment or first amendment. I believe that at least some of the founding fathers did use codes and invisible inks. I can't imagine any of them would have seen codes as weapons.

Re:New bill threatens journalists’ ability to protect sources by smsm42 on Friday May 01, 2020 @03:23PM (#23045565)
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Not sure which part is about cryptography. Unless you consider algorithms to be "arms", but then what isn't?

Re:New bill threatens journalists’ ability to protect sources by LukeShu on Friday May 01, 2020 @03:48PM (#23045821)
> Unless you consider algorithms to be "arms"

As the Arms Export Control Act did.

> but then what isn't?

Things not named in the United States Munitions List.

Re:New bill threatens journalists’ ability to protect sources by smsm42 on Friday May 01, 2020 @06:05PM (#23047017)
That's not a functional definition, that's "government does what it wants" definition. No point in having Constitution and Bill of Rights then - the government can put whatever freedoms it wants on United States Freedoms List and remove whatever it wants from there anytime it wants to. If there's nothing outside contemporary whim of the government and any government decision is as legitimate as another - then what's the point of discussing constitutional amendments and rights anyway? Rights are what the government says they are, and that's it.
Re:New bill threatens journalists’ ability to protect sources by LukeShu on Friday May 01, 2020 @08:41PM (#23048017)
If you reduce all legislative action to "whatever it wants ... anytime it wants to" then there's no point in discussing any of this; they can just pass an amendment to the Constitution.

You're right, it's not a common-sense definition, it's a "rule of law" definition. If the government decides to regulate encryption as arms, then it must deal with the consequences that it is admitting that encryption is arms, and that the constitutional limits on how it how it regulates arms apply to how it regulates encryption. Individual laws form a system, and even though parts of the government can change individual laws, they must still obey the system as a whole; that's what the rule of law is about.