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Re:Chernobyl and the Cost of Lies (2019) by AnthonyMouse on Sunday April 26, 2020 @08:33PM (#22991728)
> The problem with this assumption is you can’t keep everything else identical. Population X and Y don’t grow up live and die in exactly identical areas expect for different radiation levels.

For most other things you would do a placebo controlled trial, but it might be hard to get people to sign up for a trial where you're giving them enough radiation to expect to cause a significant number of them to get cancer.

So controlling for confounders is really the only thing left if you want an answer.

And it works pretty well -- at least better than nothing -- if you actually want the answer. The problem with it is that it unfortunately can also produce whatever answer you want from a political perspective by reverse engineering which confounders to control for based on which ones shift toward the desired outcome, so you can't trust somebody else to do it for you without checking their work at a level of detail that basically amounts to redoing the analysis yourself.

> It turns out skin cancer is a solid proxy

Wait, what are you using it as a proxy for?

Re:Chernobyl and the Cost of Lies (2019) by Retric on Sunday April 26, 2020 @10:17PM (#22992283)
It’s a proxy for low level radiation exposure over time.

It’s not great, but skin cancer is more closely tied to radiation exposure rather than everything that can cause lung cancer etc.

Re:Chernobyl and the Cost of Lies (2019) by AnthonyMouse on Monday April 27, 2020 @12:16PM (#22997214)
Doesn't that require assuming the conclusion? If LNT is wrong then skin cancer shouldn't be linearly proportional to radiation exposure either.

Plus, you still have the same problem with confounders. Expect more skin cancer in a population that spends more time outside, but also potentially a very different lifestyle in that case.

And problems with radiation type as well, since many types of radiation don't penetrate the skin, so they could cause skin cancer but not other cancers. Which has implications for the fatality rate because skin cancer has a much higher survival rate than most other types.

Re:Chernobyl and the Cost of Lies (2019) by Retric on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @01:05AM (#23003576)
You’re always stuck building a model and testing it in any case. The point is you don’t need to adjust for many common causes of cancer like smoking, so it’s a simpler model.