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Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by neovive on Sunday April 26, 2020 @08:04PM (#22991516)
I'm actually working through this book right now. I've been away from front-end coding for a bit and my weekend/evening project over the next month is to brush up on modern Javascript and ReactJS. This book is very well written and great re-introduction to JS/programming fundamentals.

For those interested--Besides this book, my current learning plan includes: Javascript 30 by WesBos Exploring ES6 [http://exploringjs.com/es6/] Learning React-2nd Edition on O'Reilly Learning The Beginners Guide to React on Egghead Data Structures and Algorithms in JavaScript on Egghead.

I also used Kent C. Dodds' excellent "JavaScript to Know for React" article as an outline.

Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by throwawaystress on Sunday April 26, 2020 @11:06PM (#22992518)
Whoa! You’re going to finish all seven (six?) of those books over the next month? Just on nights and weekends? How are you so productive? How do you not burn out, given that (I assume) you do software during the day? Honest question, from someone who is often down on themselves for being a slow coder, slow reader, and easily burned out.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by hombre_fatal on Monday April 27, 2020 @08:15AM (#22995077)
Then again, they're just plans. If announcing plans counted for anything, I'd be jacked with a six pack.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by neovive on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:43AM (#22996275)
Definitely don't get down on yourself--going through periods of low- and high-productivity is normal. I get burned out at work multiple times each year (I do mostly technical writing, training, and support). It just depends on how you look at things and how you measure success. I'm not a 10x developer, so I don't measure myself against 10x tech bloggers or other "experts". I just break my learning goals down into small, manageable tasks and revise as needed.

My measure of success is being able to understand development at a lower-level. Learning new languages, frameworks and building side projects helps me through the low periods and enables me to work more fluently with developers.

I have experience with Javascript and VueJS from a couple of years ago, so my goal is to catch up with modern JS (ES6+), brush up my JS core knowledge (not just frameworks) and learn ReactJS. It's very likely that I won't finish everything on my list this month, due to other obligations, but that's ok. I'm not competing with the experts out there, I just want to learn new skills and build things that I couldn't before. I also have a bit more time now that I'm stuck at home on evenings and weekends.

Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by throwawaystress on Monday April 27, 2020 @05:00PM (#22999974)
Thanks :)
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by vijaybritto on Monday April 27, 2020 @02:08AM (#22993300)
Maybe he's just brushing up his past knowledge. Or maybe he's got the photomemory ability like gifted people. Who knows
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by hugey010 on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:30AM (#22995625)
I'm beginning to think this kind of memory is hugely important for programming. It sounds counter-intuitive because devs work with text, but maintaining a visual representation of any project, current and future state, as well as the various machine states is a consistent way to be productive.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by vijaybritto on Monday April 27, 2020 @12:55PM (#22997586)
That's very helpful. But I'm talking about people with a special ability to remember everything after reading it once. My brother is someone like that and it's insane how much he remembers details of things that happened so many years ago.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by neovive on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:50AM (#22996359)
Definitely the former--I'm just brushing up on my core JS skills and learning React for the first time. I currently use Vue for side projects, but I really like the React Hooks API.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by ggregoire on Sunday April 26, 2020 @09:14PM (#22991969)
For React, why not just read the docs? You don't really need anything else.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by duxup on Sunday April 26, 2020 @10:29PM (#22992335)
The docs are great for a given tidbit, but for structure and "why" I personally don't always get that from the docs and I end up reading something from Kent that tells me why.

https://kentcdodds.com/blog/usememo-and-usecallback

Granted that's probably because on a good day my reading comprehension is not great and learning within a narrative works way better for me.

Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by gimboland on Monday April 27, 2020 @05:29AM (#22994295)
Kent's stuff is good but I have a niggle with him (and an annoyingly non-zero bunch of other bloggers): no publication dates on his posts. As someone who always makes notes of what I read, and who wants those notes to include publication dates, it annoys me that I have to look at the git source for a given blog post to find out when it was published. (Though at least with Kent I have that option...)
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by the_other on Monday April 27, 2020 @07:13AM (#22994749)
Web tech moves very fast. A good answer to a problem today will likely get superseded within a year. In such a context, dates become essential tools to help comprehend someone’s post.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by centrinoblue on Monday April 27, 2020 @09:44AM (#22995725)
This———^
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by ashconnor on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:20AM (#22996059)
Dates are in the RSS feed. https://kentcdodds.com/blog/rss.xml
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by Wistar on Monday April 27, 2020 @01:21PM (#22997826)
The undated post thing is a huge pet peeve of mine (as are the relative time stamps, i.e. "2 days ago" rather than a real date/time).
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by weaksauce on Monday April 27, 2020 @03:12PM (#22998928)
it's on the very bottom of the post if you want it and apparently his posts are all on github which are timestamped as well.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by gimboland on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @02:13PM (#23010010)
So it is! I stand corrected - thanks! I am, however, still open to the possibility that I was right in the past, and that he recently added the dates. ;-)
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by cjauvin on Sunday April 26, 2020 @09:56PM (#22992202)
The React tutorial is one of the best of the kind. You can go from zero to a reasonable understanding very efficiently.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by adonese on Monday April 27, 2020 @11:42AM (#22996888)
I personally was able to finish a side project in reasonable time working only with react docs.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by karimdxy on Sunday April 26, 2020 @09:27PM (#22992038)
Yes. I 100% agree with you. For whatever reason most people almost alway look elsewhere for the thing while it’s right in front of them.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by cfors on Sunday April 26, 2020 @09:52PM (#22992180)
Sure, you're right. They are quite good. But just from my perspective, I've been a backend engineer for most of my professional career and wanted to pick up front end dev. With little javascript/html/css knowledge, I used a couple different resources. I'm still learning, but I've found that just the official documentation doesn't quite get you there if you want to get the full picture.

I've been working through the following resources with a decent amount of success I think:

1. Fullstack React: The Complete Guide [0] - a wonderful book with a bunch of practical applications to build

2. Learn CSS Layout [1] - A nice write up for understanding what CSS actually is doing

3. Mozilla HTML Reference [2] - Can't get any better than this documentation

4. Eloquent Javascript 3rd Edition - Book being discussed, really enjoying working through it.

Obviously, the React and Redux documentation have been great as well. I don't think that just those really give you the full picture that you need though if you actually want to build professional web applications.

Just another side of the coin, I suppose.

[0] https://www.newline.co/fullstack-react/

[1] http://book.mixu.net/css/

[2] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference

Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by karimdxy on Monday April 27, 2020 @05:15AM (#22994235)
You’re absolutely correct and I don’t disagree. However I’d like to offer an alternative: unless you build a real world project you won’t ever feel comfortable with your learning. I used to be just like you, try to cover as much ground as possible through (explicit) knowledge (books, blogs, videos, you name it) but whenever I applied that to the real thing, turns out there was always something missing, that I didn’t plan for. (I’m assuming you value your time and try to maximize as much of it as possible) Now what I do: I still look for resources BUT those that cover the minimum required (THE FUNDAMENTALS) and build upon that knowledge through practice and better target research/reading.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by colmvp on Sunday April 26, 2020 @11:34PM (#22992652)
For me at least, I learn a lot faster by actively doing something (i.e. working on a toy problem/algorithm) than just reading the docs.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by K0SM0S on Monday April 27, 2020 @01:34AM (#22993150)
I suppose the implication was that you read the docs as you build something — the proverbial learn on a "need-to-nerd-basis"

I'm the same, I can read 1,000 technical pages no problem and make you a great talk, but I'll remember nothing past a month (or 12...) if I don't actually use it.

Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by tvanantwerp on Sunday April 26, 2020 @11:24PM (#22992615)
The React docs are excellent. But many (if not most) other projects have woefully under-developed docs that offer confusion more than clarity. I wouldn't blame anyone for assuming that the docs are not the place to start for learning something new.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by nkhodyunya on Monday April 27, 2020 @04:27AM (#22993991)
Nowadays if you face a tool with sparse official documentation or with total absence of it, it's probably better to find another tool or be prepared to learn from the source code.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by karimdxy on Monday April 27, 2020 @05:01AM (#22994160)
Exactly. That’s one of the heuristic I use nowadays to filter things.

Does it have a good documentation?

Yes? Cool. I dive in head first.

No? Hard pass.

Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by barrenko on Monday April 27, 2020 @02:31AM (#22993413)
For me React docs look really great, but I don't get a lot from them, even though I'd say I understand JS. OTOH Python docs usually look like crap, but I get a sense of understanding.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by karimdxy on Monday April 27, 2020 @05:06AM (#22994187)
That has a lot to do with the underlying language actually. This is purely anecdotal but react was the first framework I tried to learn. It was hard for many reasons. One Angular internship and one big vue project later, it was no longer hard. Everything just fell in place. It just clicked. The secret? My JS skills got way better.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by barrenko on Tuesday April 28, 2020 @08:47AM (#23006434)
Makes sense. It's probably my love/hate relationship with JS.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by werber on Sunday April 26, 2020 @10:37PM (#22992376)
I’m personally a dig in the docs kinda person, but I’ve worked with plenty of people who prefer a tutorial with a teacher and projects.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by bJGVygG7MQVF8c on Sunday April 26, 2020 @09:53PM (#22992183)
Thought Leaders need to eat
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by virvar on Monday April 27, 2020 @02:59AM (#22993556)
Doesn’t the react tutorial end after what’s basically a hello world project? Some people prefer a lot more guidance than that.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by searchableguy on Monday April 27, 2020 @06:41AM (#22994611)
No. They have a bunch of tutorials depending on which concept you want to learn.

Basics concepts - https://reactjs.org/tutorial/tutorial.html

Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by 11235813213455 on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:07AM (#22995939)
I guess (online) books speed up the learning, but I've learned all those techs by practice over a few months, official docs (mdn, nodejs docs, react docs, googling, github issues & stackoverflow) and IRC
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by neovive on Monday April 27, 2020 @10:46AM (#22996314)
The MDN and React docs are amazing! I consistently refer to them while working through the books for a deeper dive into the API's. I tend to have three MDN pages open at any given time.
Re:Eloquent JavaScript 3rd Edition (2018) by 3crypto on Sunday April 26, 2020 @08:29PM (#22991702)
Thanks for posting these. I need to do some refreshing as well.