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Re:Things I wished more developers knew about databases by AndrewKemendo on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @02:12PM (#22948487)
10, 11 year timeline to what?

You should be constantly learning everything about the whole stack so that you can actually build functional, reliable, manageable and maintainable systems.

I expect a competent developer to be able to build a modern multi-page web application, with a HTML/JS front end, relational database back end, appropriately configured certificates and DNS/CNAME/URL, build basic uptime and application monitoring and do a basic SQL ETL data retrieval process.

That seems like a reasonable bar, and while the specific tools have changed over the years, that stack is basically the same as it's been since the 90s.

Re:Things I wished more developers knew about databases by vsareto on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @02:44PM (#22948833)
> 10, 11 year timeline to what?

To be decent at each of those areas I listed.

Why those 10 specific things?

Those are all areas I've seen "Developers should learn X" calls-to-action.

Sometimes it's outright loathing over developers that don't know specific topics. Other times it's wishful thinking, or maybe a nice-to-have.

If you, as a developer, read all of those posts, they probably all make fair points about the importance of knowing each of those things as they relate to development. You decide there is some merit to learning it.

So you decide to make a to-do list to go learn each of those topics, because you want to listen to the blog posts and be a good developer, and do some real work to prove you know it. That's what's going to take you a while.

Re:Things I wished more developers knew about databases by StandardFuture on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @02:35PM (#22948726)
You seem to be contradicting yourself without realizing it.

> You should be constantly learning everything

This is an in-progress action i.e. the developer is still learning.

> I expect a competent developer to be able to build

This is now considering a "learned" developer.

I am not sure you are making the point you think you are making. The point I think you are trying to make is your expectations of what an experience developer should know. But, you seem to be expressing it as what a new developer should be doing.

While the core discussion of the article might be in regards to what developers do and do not know, I can't help but notice that a developer knowing about something does not necessarily allow them to be productive in that area of their knowledge (especially relative to another co-worker with both the knowledge and the dedicated focus in that area).

Also very important to note: the comment you are addressing seems to be referring to knowledge that is local (particular customer necessity/problems, particular architecture choices for infrastructure, particular product design decisions, particular ways to answer the quirky CEO/CTO in a way that they understand, etc.). There is a lot of locale-based knowledge that a developer must learn at a company/job/project and can even change over time (temporal-locales).

Globally-applicable knowledge like frontend, backend, and general CS concepts are for sure a reasonable expectation of an experienced developer. But, there is a delicate balance a developer must take in the real working world that is subject to not attempting to master every aspect of the product/business (especially if it overlaps with someone else's job/focus) just because you have a high-level understanding of the global concepts. In other words, it is not necessarily efficient for a developer to know every aspect of every language and every database in the company unless that actually buys the company more customers and money.

I would expect any decent manager to understand this very basic principle. Everyone in the company trying to be a master at everyone else's job does not help the company make more money. Being reasonable about expectations in the moment is also a critical asset of working together to make money. :)

Re:Things I wished more developers knew about databases by jatone on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @02:47PM (#22948854)
hes not contradicting himself, the fact is there are a large percentage of developers who just don't care. its not a matter of still learning. they just don't care to learn.
Re:Things I wished more developers knew about databases by StandardFuture on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @02:53PM (#22948924)
To be clear, I was not trying to say his points were void of validity. I was trying to append some clarity to properly differentiating between a developers general knowledge base, a developers temporary knowledge base, and the actual day-to-day doings of the developer. They are not equivalent sets of things even if they intersect.

As a personal anecdote, I know I have learned many things on a project that really helped improve the code, that today I am not able to recall and would have to go back and re-learn with a minimum of a refresher. This happens a lot too. :)

Re:Things I wished more developers knew about databases by thrwn_frthr_awy on Wednesday April 22, 2020 @08:25PM (#22951608)
> I expect a competent developer to be able to build a modern multi-page web application, with a HTML/JS front end, relational database back end, appropriately configured certificates and DNS/CNAME/URL, build basic uptime and application monitoring and do a basic SQL ETL data retrieval process.

What does all that have to do with OP's assertion that expecting application developers to understand that nuances of DB's listed in the article is noble, but unrealistic? A "competent developer" could fulfill your requirements and still not understand the implications of time drift or how to scale horizontally or other deep topics. Applications developers are the hub to many spokes, but expecting them to have deep knowledge across all technologies is unrealistic just as it is to expect a DBA to have a deep understanding of how a certain application framework works.