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Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by mmmBacon on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @11:53AM (#22879243)
A thing I have with photography is this obsession with very low F#’s as being better A low F# is hard to produce but it doesn’t always make for a high quality image. These lenses have large ROC and allow very high angle rays to enter the system. So there is often significant aberrations in these lenses.
Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by xyzzy_plugh on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @12:07PM (#22879419)
Why is this strange? A low f-stop IS better because it let's more light in, meaning I can record more information using my sensor in less (shutter) time, resulting in sharper images (less shakiness/improved stabilization).

There are lots of things that can remedy higher f-stops to some extent, but nothing really substitutes that big aperature.

The big appeal if low f-stop lenses from high end lensmakers is that they have reduced aberrations/distortions because they use a shit ton of glass to improve the image, which in turn is why they can be so incredibly expensive. A $50 f/1.6 is going to be dogshit. The $5000 lens is going to have additional optics to remedy the large ROC and high-angle rays.

The trade-offs are often worth it.

Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by ashtonkem on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @12:11PM (#22879475)
Faster lenses are more flexible, whether or not that flexibility is worth the added cost and weight depends on your intended use case. A lot of photography gets done stopped down to f/8 or so, after all.
Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by lm28469 on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @01:06PM (#22880212)
> A low f-stop IS better ... they use a shit ton of glass to improve the image

Meh, they use a shit ton of glass _which introduces aberrations_ which needs more glass to correct.

I bought a 50mm 1.2 ai-s, and sent it back a few days later. The dof is unusable at f1.2 and after f2.8 it looks like any other quality 50mm lens. It vignets like crazy and edges aren't sharp until you stop down to regular apertures. So yeah sure you can shoot a bit better in low light, if you like blurry and soft pics.

> The trade-offs are often worth it.

For pros, maybe, for prosumers and consumers I highly doubt it.

Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by ksk on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @02:51PM (#22881528)
That lens is a 16 year old lens, hardly indicative of anything. Try a Canon RF 50mm f/1.2.
Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by lm28469 on Thursday April 16, 2020 @05:28AM (#22887606)
> That lens is a 16 year old lens

40 years old actually, still made new by nikon in their japanese factories to this day.

> Canon RF 50mm f/1.2

I'd happily test one but it costs more than my whole 35mm + medium format setups + darkroom equipment. It weights 3 times more than the nikkor and uses 77mm filter instead of 52mm so this is already a big no-no in my books.

I'm sure there are good fast lenses, it's just that they have so many drawbacks that it doesn't make sense for the vast majority of photographers.

Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by ksk on Thursday April 16, 2020 @04:22PM (#22893117)
Oops, I looked at the wrong lens. I was using this website:

http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/lenses.html

>I'm sure there are good fast lenses, it's just that they have so many drawbacks that it doesn't make sense for the vast majority of photographers.

My point was its not fair to use an old obsolete lens to denounce fast aperture primes of today.

Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by pdpi on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @12:30PM (#22879723)
A fast f-stop is better only if it allows you to use a lower ISO or a faster shutter speed in a context where you need a fast shutter. And even then, with modern cameras with good IS and strong low-light performance, you might still be better off with a slower f-stop.

Everywhere else, most lenses are sharped stopped down to the f/5.6–f/8 range, and depth-of-field is an entirely stylistic choice — e.g. shallow dof is popular with portraits, but largely undesirable for landscape photography.

Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by snowwrestler on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @01:12PM (#22880298)
One thing that drove lust for low f-stops is that the lens had to be engineered and built to a higher degree of precision to produce acceptable quality fully open--which also benefited people who stopped it down. For a long time a f2.8 lens stopped down to f8 was likely to produce a better image than a f4 lens stopped down to f8--simply because the f2.8 was built better.

That is no longer necessarily true. For example in Nikon world the current 70-200mm f4 is generally thought to have the same quality as the 70-200mm f2.8.

Lens quality in general has gone way up as digital cameras have exceeded the resolution of film. Now companies have to engineer even mid-range lenses to produce very high-quality images since even mid-range DSLRs might have 20MP sensors or more. And on a computer it's easy to zoom in and pixel-peep... and share your disappointment with everyone else if the lens is bad.

For all the legend-making around the Nikon 300mm f2.0, their latest 300mm f2.8 is going to outperform it in every way expect for the number of photons it lets through.

Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by pdpi on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @04:12PM (#22882466)
> even mid-range DSLRs might have 20MP sensors or more.

This is actually a funny thing. The APS-C Canon 90D has a slightly higher resolution sensor than the full frame 5Dmk4, and significantly higher than the brand new, also full frame, 1DXmk3. Sony’s APS-C bodies are all 24MP, the same as the a7iii and the flagship a9/a9ii.

Other than dedicated high-res models (5DS, a7R, D850/Z7), high-end cameras routinely have much lower pixel density than cheaper cameras, because resolution doesn’t matter that much for most applications, and pros care for a whole bunch of other features that scale poorly with resolution (such as low light performance and buffer drain speed)

Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by snowwrestler on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @05:08PM (#22883107)
There's a whole category of pro cameras where the MP count is intentionally kept down to match the image-handling workflows behind the photographer.

Think of your classic Sports Illustrated photographer... those images are not going to run larger than double truck in a print magazine, and 12 MP is plenty for that. Heck, National Geographic's first digital two-page spread was shot with a Nikon D1X.

And news and sports images need to go out FAST... where again a lower MP count actually helps.

Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by stan_rogers on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @05:36PM (#22883374)
> For a long time a f2.8 lens stopped down to f8 was likely to produce a better image than a f4 lens stopped down to f8--simply because the f2.8 was built better.

And at the same time it was just as likely to result in poorer pictures because of focus shift when stopped down.

Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by ska on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @01:22PM (#22880441)
The focus on f-stops was/is for the same reason people chased high ISO film in the old days, and "ISO" on sensors now, and the focus on extremely long tele's also.

This isn't about getting the best image possible but about capturing something you otherwise couldn't get at all.

All of this gear is about flexibility to handle poor lighting conditions, things moving quickly, etc. If you are product photographer with a room full of lighting equipment you are going to pick the right lens for the job and make the room work. Other people rarely have this freedom.

It's worth noting that in the last couple of generations of digital sensors, we're objectively in a better situation than fast film was, so that loosens the need for fast glass a bit. The same is true for widely deployed mostly ok physical image stabilization systems.

Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by ip26 on Thursday April 16, 2020 @12:03AM (#22885934)
Bird photography is my personal example. If you go back ten or twenty years, you quickly notice much of the bird photos of the age have no background- because high power flash was mandatory. But today, while it is a challenge, it is possible to photograph small subjects handheld in natural light- with the latest & greatest equipment.
Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by anta40 on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @12:06PM (#22879398)
Kinda reminds me to the legendary Canon 50mm f/0.95. Manual focusing at f/0.95 is not that easy and with that reaaallly shallow depth-of-field, making interesting composition is hard.
Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by geerlingguy on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @12:39PM (#22879835)
The 'NIKKOR Z 58mm f/0.95 S Noct' is Nikon's answer to that, and yeah, it is difficult to nail focus when you have a depth of field for close subjects that's in fractions of millimeters!
Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by jungletime on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @11:37PM (#22885789)
You might like this video on ultra fast lenses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p5E7iXxeQE

At the end they compare budget lenses like the Canon 50mm f/0.95 and find that the SLR Magic 25mm T0.95, seems to work better in low light.

Re:Nikon's 300mm F/2 by farazbabar on Wednesday April 15, 2020 @02:22PM (#22881165)
Some of these lenses are quite amazing. My favorite lens from this class is the leica noctilux at f0.95. It is tac sharp even at f0.95 (if you can nail the focus) and the images make even an amateur like me look like a photo god.