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Re:John Conway by comex on Monday April 13, 2020 @11:30PM (#22862518)
> I also recall Conway spending several weeks trying to construct a strange periscope-type device to try to help him visualize four-dimensional objects by giving his eyes vertical parallax in addition to the usual horizontal parallax, although he later told me that the only thing the device made him experience was a headache.

I'm quite curious what exactly Conway was trying to do here. The parallax we use for depth sensing is indeed horizontal in terms of the axes of the image we see, because our two eyes are separated horizontally. With a periscope you might be able to simulate two eyes separated diagonally or vertically. But how does that help you visualize four-dimensional objects?

Re:John Conway by zamadatix on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @12:40AM (#22862805)
I think he was aiming to get a simultaneous perspective of an entire 3d object. A bit like taking a 3d viewing perspective of a gD shadow being better at helping understand the 3d shape than a viewing pespective of the same shadow from the 2d plane it rests on.
Re:John Conway by Normal_gaussian on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @12:13AM (#22862683)
Perhaps by splitting each eye's vision in two or four. Sure, in a single instant you can only be looking in one pair, but vision has significant hysteresis effects.

I suspect something like this really requires you to grow up with it.

Re:John Conway by wallflower on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @12:20AM (#22862714)
In "Death's End" of the Three Body Problem trilogy by Liu Cixin, there is a fantastical description of 4D space.

> kranner on Aug 4, 2018 | parent | favorite | on: 4D toys

This passage from Death's End by Cixin Liu really gave me pause to stop and wonder about what the experience of seeing extra dimensions might be like (here translated to English by Ken Liu): --

A person looking back upon the three-dimensional world from four-dimensional space for the first time realized this right away: He had never seen the world while he was in it. If the three-dimensional world were likened to a picture, all he had seen before was just a narrow view from the side: a line. Only from four-dimensional space could he see the picture as a whole. He would describe it this way: Nothing blocked whatever was placed behind it. Even the interiors of sealed spaces were laid open.

This seemed a simple change, but when the world was displayed this way, the visual effect was utterly stunning. When all barriers and concealments were stripped away, and everything was exposed, the amount of information entering the viewer’s eyes was hundreds of millions times greater than when he was in three-dimensional space. The brain could not even process so much information right away.

In Morovich and Guan’s eyes, Blue Space was a magnificent, immense painting that had just been unrolled. They could see all the way to the stern, and all the way to the bow; they could see the inside of every cabin and every sealed container in the ship; they could see the liquid flowing through the maze of tubes, and the fiery ball of fusion in the reactor at the stern....

Of course, the rules of perspective remained in operation, and objects far away appeared indistinct, but everything was visible.

Given this description, those who had never experienced four-dimensional space might get the wrong impression that they were seeing everything “through” the hull. But no, they were not seeing “through” anything. Everything was laid out in the open, just like when we look at a circle drawn on a piece of paper, we can see the inside of the circle without looking “through” anything.

This kind of openness extended to every level, and the hardest part was describing how it applied to solid objects. One could see the interior of solids, such as the bulkheads or a piece of metal or a rock—one could see all the cross sections at once!

Morovich and Guan were drowning in a sea of information—all the details of the universe were gathered around them and fighting for their attention in vivid colors.

Morovich and Guan had to learn to deal with an entirely novel visual phenomenon: unlimited details. In three-dimensional space, the human visual system dealt with limited details. No matter how complicated the environment or the object, the visible elements were limited.

Given enough time, it was always possible to take in most of the details one by one. But when one viewed the three-dimensional world from four-dimensional space, all concealed and hidden details were revealed simultaneously, since three-dimensional objects were laid open at every level. Take a sealed container as an example: One could see not only what was inside, but also the interiors of the objects inside. This boundless disclosure and exposure led to the unlimited details on display.

Everything in the ship lay exposed before Morovich and Guan, but even when observing some specific object, such as a cup or a pen, they saw infinite details, and the information received by their visual systems was incalculable. Even a lifetime would not be enough to take in the shape of any one of these objects in four-dimensional space. When an object was revealed at all levels in four-dimensional space, it created in the viewer a vertigo-inducing sensation of depth, like a set of Russian nesting dolls that went on without end. Bounded in a nutshell but counting oneself a king of infinite space was no longer merely a metaphor.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17686464

Re:John Conway by andai on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @02:01AM (#22863132)
> they were not seeing “through” anything. Everything was laid out in the open, just like when we look at a circle drawn on a piece of paper, we can see the inside of the circle without looking “through” anything.

Brilliant, I had always imagined it as a sort of fuzzy MRI, but of course that's not how it would be at all.

I'm surprised by the next part though. My visual field already presents me with infinitely nested detail, which doesn't seem to depend on the dimensionality of the input. After all there are 1D, 2D, 3D fractals (and beyond!)

Re:John Conway by jdkee on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @01:48AM (#22863085)
Greg Egan has some fantastic writing on considering extra-dimensional space. See Wang's Carpets as the basis for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(novel)
Re:John Conway by jiofih on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @06:15AM (#22864281)
How do you reconcile this idea with the fact that light bounces around in 3D space? How would you “see”?
Re:John Conway by buo on Saturday April 18, 2020 @02:10PM (#22909741)
Interesting. A 2-D being in flatland would consider the inside of a closed, empty circle to be "dark", but from 3-D we can still see inside it. Maybe one could postulate a 4-D source of light.
Re:John Conway by FabHK on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @09:55AM (#22865982)
The "old-school" exposition of live in 2D, 1D, and then 4D in fictional form is in the novel Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions by Edwin Abbott Abbott. An entertaining read, mixing maths and social critique of Victorian class society (women are line segments, men are polygons - the more vertices, the higher class...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

Re:John Conway by tly_alex on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @01:43AM (#22863058)
When read "three body" at the time, I was also amazed by the description. Always wondering how a multi dimention world would looks like as a kid.
Re:John Conway by EchoAce on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @01:14AM (#22862948)
I just read this! Gave me chills..
Re:John Conway by kitd on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @05:11AM (#22863999)
This is fantastic, but one thing it seems to be missing is a projection of how objects change and interact over time, eg how revolving bodies form a helix in 4D, etc.

Or is that described elsewhere? I've not read the book (one more for the quarantine list!)

Re:John Conway by bla3 on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @06:13AM (#22864267)
I believe this is about 4 space-like dimensions, not spacetime. Imagine perceiving a 2d image from within the plane: you'd only see width, not height, and lines would be hidden behind other lines. Only if you're in 3d, you can look at the plane from atop and see everything. Similar for looking at a 3d scene from 4 dimensions.
Re:John Conway by mulberryprism on Tuesday April 14, 2020 @07:47PM (#22872833)