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Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by magicsmoke on Thursday April 09, 2020 @11:47AM (#22823664)
Considering this is an English site, most of the participants here are probably from the Anglosphere which, being led by the US, would tend to mistrust China. It's interesting how you mention that as Dutch and European, you don't have the same level of mistrust. Without a measure of how China is viewed, not just in the Anglosphere, but in Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia, South Asia, the Islamic world, Central Asia, and other cultural and linguistic spheres that a typical native English speaker wouldn't be able to communicate with, it's really hard to tell how effective China's soft power moves are.
Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by FooBarWidget on Thursday April 09, 2020 @11:59AM (#22823799)
I don't think this has got anything to do with China's soft power. The Dutch generally look at things in a calm and less emotionally-loaded manner, at least compared to the Americans. There is still a slight slant towards mistrust but it's nowhere near how it is in America.

I see the US social media villanizing China for the most insane things that can be easily disproven. The Dutch at least make an attempt at being objective.

Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by adventured on Thursday April 09, 2020 @12:49PM (#22824480)
It's a matter of stakes. The Netherlands has no power and very few responsibilities globally. It's often easy to be objective about topics when your stakes are low and distant.

How's that supposed Dutch calm looking when it comes to Italy and fiscal matters these days? I've been following that closely, they've been anything but calm, rational, objective. They're being emotional and subjective, making poor decisions, because it's a very personal subject that is nearby.

The US directly leads the entire military power base of the Western nations, as represented by NATO. And it is the sole backbone to that system. The French and Germans barely have militaries that can project outside of their own borders at this point, and the British are not far behind. China is going the opposite direction, they're a rapidly expanding superpower that is about to project militarily to nearly every corner of the globe, with obvious consequences.

The Netherlands isn't militarily facing off against China in Asia. The US is, every day - and at the eager welcome of numerous nations including Vietnam, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan. The US is the only nation that has directly confronted China and slowed down their annexing of the South China Sea. It won't be the Netherlands that has to make a decision about going to war with China when or if China invades Taiwan to annex them. The Netherlands will barely so much as lift a finger to help; first, they can't do anything because they're weak compared to China; and second they have little real stake in the matter. The US has dozens of allies it is militarily responsible to, countries that count on the US to shield them; the Netherlands has no comparable situation.

The Netherlands has little at stake in the China matter, compared to the US. They're a small trader nation at this point, shielded by larger nations in numerous ways.

So yeah, having dramatically more at stake in every possible way, the US is more charged about the topic than the ... calm and rational Dutch (about a topic they have very little stake in) that don't have to militarily confront China every day.

Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by FooBarWidget on Thursday April 09, 2020 @02:27PM (#22825652)
What you say may have some truth in it. However, does having a stake mean that it is okay to act overly emotional and occasionally throwing out rational analysis?

I also disagree on one thing here: the claim that China is projecting power to the rest of the world, that is trying to conquer the world or becoming an American style militaristic empire. In my opinion this is pure projection (in the psychological sense). China wants to defend themselves from a US invasion or blockade. They are not interested in controlling or occupying other countries, they just want to be able to do business.

What about South China Sea you may ask? They do it in order to deny the US from using that area to blockade them, not to conquer other countries or deny other countries from normal usage. See https://www.quora.com/Why-does-China-want-to-control-almost-...

Note, I am not saying whether this is a good or a just thing. But it certainly is different from how most westerners understand it.

Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by pmachinery on Thursday April 09, 2020 @03:56PM (#22826512)
The topic is not Captain America saving the world again, it's Chinese medical supplies to Holland. That seems like something the Dutch have far more stake in than Americans.

And a country that has dramatically more at stake by permanently looking for fights all around the world should probably be more rational and calm than one that isn't.

Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by Bayart on Friday April 10, 2020 @02:12AM (#22830453)
>The French and Germans barely have militaries that can project outside of their own borders at this point

Pardon ? The French military is the one that projects the most in Europe.

Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by Zenst on Thursday April 09, 2020 @11:58AM (#22823790)
Sorry posted in response to wrong comment and so not direct response to the comment replied to, more the thread above and editing this in as unable to delete and redo, sorry my bad.

When outsourcing of production and labour suits, it's ignored for the underlying issues, when those underlying issue come to the surface, the same people who shifted for a shareholder appeasement dividend are just as quick to point the finger in every direction apart form themselves.

That in many forms is how things have played out in resource supply chains, this with margin nibbling away and with that a shift from local sourcing todwards, saving some money short-term are only a disaster away from being seen. Alas even those disasters need to be blatant enough to get noticed and the response and excess transportation of products and true impact/cost upon the environment as bit by bit, gets slower in acknowledgement.

But easy to reduce everything as tribal politics when convenient and carry on paying lip service and then wonder why we are in the state we are in. Of course it is akin to claiming everything is down to aliens and when you look at it like that, it's crazy and ignores the real issue of accountable and responsible buying and selling, something that is hard to account and balance upon the company books and with that, the drive for profit being the goal, bad things happen and until the system truly accounts for such things and the impact - the same mistakes will carry on transpiring and the people blamed for crimes they did not commit and those that commit true crimes are allowed to carry on as the law and rules are so slow in catching up that by the time they do, the problems have shifted.

Maybe why tax havens and the like are still a thing as are many other forms of unfairness that play out in the world today.

But we do live in a society that is more geared towards reactive handling of issues over proactive handling.

Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by magicsmoke on Thursday April 09, 2020 @12:02PM (#22823824)
You posted on the wrong comment mate
Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by Zenst on Thursday April 09, 2020 @12:21PM (#22824059)
I did, sorry, my bad thank you for pointing out i'll fix that mess. ok added edit at start, can't delete now so fixed that context drift.
Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by not_exactly__ on Thursday April 09, 2020 @11:54AM (#22823745)
The soft power only works on those that haven’t been exposed to it long enough. If you’ve dealt with China for a while, you know the real deal.
Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by magicsmoke on Thursday April 09, 2020 @11:55AM (#22823755)
Want to give which geographical region you're from so I can put it down as an anecdotal datapoint?
Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by not_exactly__ on Thursday April 09, 2020 @12:10PM (#22823903)
Lived in China. Also lots of African friends who don’t appreciate how the Chinese do business in their country.
Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by FooBarWidget on Thursday April 09, 2020 @02:28PM (#22825666)
How do they do business?

Are those Chinese representing private companies, or state companies?

Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by Papirola on Thursday April 09, 2020 @12:31PM (#22824226)
Care to give yours?
Re:Japan to fund firms to shift production out of China by magicsmoke on Thursday April 09, 2020 @12:38PM (#22824329)
Canada, currently working in the States.